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Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

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Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#341

Post by zo1 »

blntechie wrote: post #156
armada651 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need a Visa one way or the other to stay in the US as an alien. Besides even if you weren't kicked out, how are you going to make a living without a work authorization? Overstaying your Visa is illegal. I know ICE isn't going to knock on your door right away, but it's going to negatively affect future Visa applications (visiting also requires a Visa).

It’s just nitpicking but visa in US immigration parlance is only a tool for entry to the country. Work authorization and visa are not technically same. You can stay in the country legally even with expired visa (the one pasted in the passport) but with work authorization approval documents extending the same visa category or another category.

Wow. As an outsider, a lot of the immigration/illegal-alien discussion makes a lot more sense now that I am aware of that detail. And I can't say I'm surprised that it's been such a huge, contentious and problematic issue with that kind of grey-area.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#342

Post by austincheney »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #303
austincheney wrote: post #233

My common sense frustration here is how can the US possibly have a critical shortage of developers on languages that are 20 to 50 years old? We have the third highest population in the world and claim to have excellent education, and these are high paying jobs at 2x-3x the national average yearly income. So what qualifies the shortage? Is it like agriculture where Americans are too entitled for the work? Are American…

There are just too many jobs and not enough qualified devs. Even in the pandemic. It's worse if you block our international people by limiting visas. There's already a shortage of devs of course in he US. Plenty of companies have thousands of openings even in the pandemic - of course there are places that stopped hiring or even shutdown and people lost jobs. If you lower the labor pool size, pay should go up, ease of…

You are replying to something not stated.

Why is there such a shortage given the high wages, population size, access to education, and so forth?

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#343

Post by michaelmrose »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #278

All data indicate there is no shortage of US Citizens that could fill STEM positions and that H1-B holders on average make well below market rate. Outright ban is the wrong tool and I can't imagine that this is a reasoned policy response to a well understood abuse of wage-arbitrage. The right answer would be to mandate comparable wages for H1-B immigrants as for median employee with the same experience/tenure etc...…

Your thoughts are right on but the right thing to do is make it trivial for people with sought after skills to become citizens so we can benefit from their expertise at the same time as eliminating H1-B exploitation instead of trying to fix said exploitation in some complex fashion that itself is likely to be gamed.

If you make the knowledge worker that any country ought to want a citizen he will naturally demand a market wage.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#344

Post by ojbyrne »

tinyhouse wrote: post #182
lukeschlather wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All H1B salaries are public: https://h1bdata.info/ It's possible (maybe even likely) that title deflation is happening, but based on my experience the salaries are definitely in line with the pay ranges for each job title (I worked at Amazon for 3 and a half years, so I have some first and second hand information on pay.) If nothing else it's a great resource to see the unfiltered payscale at SV companies.

It's pretty useless since it only contains base salary.

I think it's somewhat useful. Salary matters, especially in economic conditions where other forms of compensation can decline precipitously.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#345

Post by akhilcacharya »

vishakh82 wrote: post #299

So many people here are celebrating this order due to its supposed abstract benefits but are somehow unaware of the its cruelty. So many visa holders in this country will be unable to leave and enter the country for the foreseeable future. If they have sick parents abroad they will not be able to visit them or, in the most tragic circumstances, say goodbye in person. It won't matter whether someone is a world-class r…

> but are somehow unaware of the its cruelty

Maybe not all, but I think many of them are. The "cruelty is the point" to quote Adam Serwer.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#346

Post by freehunter »

koolba wrote: post #315
vishakh82 wrote: post #299

So many people here are celebrating this order due to its supposed abstract benefits but are somehow unaware of the its cruelty. So many visa holders in this country will be unable to leave and enter the country for the foreseeable future. If they have sick parents abroad they will not be able to visit them or, in the most tragic circumstances, say goodbye in person. It won't matter whether someone is a world-class r…

> So many people here are celebrating this order due to its supposed abstract benefits but are somehow unaware of the its cruelty. To be blunt, a nation's citizens and permanent residents' rights to economic prosperity outweigh any temporary worker's right to continued employment. Yes it may be viewed as cruel in the individual case, but the point of these visas are not to provide a vehicle for those workers to come…

Why do these programs always seem to target the worker, but not the employer? Enforcement of illegal immigration always seems to have the immigrants arrested and deported, but what about the people who hired the illegal workers? H-1B visa holders get blamed for "competing against permanent residents" but where's the blame for companies who hire H-1B workers over American citizens?

We live in a capitalist economy which follows pretty simple supply and demand curves. Where there is a demand (cheap labor) there will always be a supply (even if it's the black market). Arresting sex workers doesn't stop people from hiring them, and arresting drug users doesn't stop the dealers.

Immigrants don't come to the US because it's fun or easy, there come here because there are companies willing to hire them, legally or not. So if there are too many H-1B holders competing with Americans, why not make it harder for companies to hire them over an equally qualified American, or punish the company for abusing the visa system just to get cheaper labor? Same with illegal immigration, why not fine or shut down businesses that hire illegal immigrants?

You say it's not pretty it's just reality and I accept that reality... but it's also needlessly cruel to punish job seekers and not the companies who are enticing them to come here.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#347

Post by zo1 »

conanbatt wrote: post #211
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was very surprised to learn 70% of Apple engineers are H1B hires - but i don’t know if this is the case currently. Agree that domestic training should be invested. Edit: sorry, clarified Apple not SV as a whole - and it was a Vice Or Vox article, so I should probably know better.

I recommend the opposite: educating is very expensive in the US. When a foreigner comes to the US, the US gets the value of that education for free. Who doesn't like free things?

It's not like the country is paying for said education. And if they were, it's not like the money is "lost" in any way, as it goes back into local businesses which "stimulates" the economy and creates local jobs. I personally wouldn't use this argument.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#348

Post by SomeoneFromCA »

fredfoobar wrote: post #319
tibbydudeza wrote: post #64

I think it is a very good idea ... poaching of the best and brightest talent from less developed countries who invested in the education of these people is a form of robbery. If you need them , then let them work remotely and pay them fair wages as they would have received in the US and let them contribute their tax to their own country.

My dude, the people who came here to work and make their living are individuals, they have desires of their own to trade their services for a good life. Countries don't own their citizens, they are entities organized by people interested in living there.

Of course they do not own their citizen, that is why you can take them to the US or other developed countries. However yes you do rob these countries of skilled workforce, and yes you do create an environment, which stuntnts the growth of these countries and yes you do increase the misery of the other citizen who is left in that countries. You just have to be honest, and say that benefit for US outweighs the loss for say India or Ukraine.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#349

Post by akhilcacharya »

awillen wrote: post #22
Forgeties79 wrote: post #4

This has gotten very old very fast (beyond the obvious cruelty). I have several friends who keep watching their colleagues just have to up and leave over this and it’s causing a ton of issues for businesses that employ folks on work visas in general. It’s just disruptive to be disruptive/feed the base.

It's just silly... even if you're a nationalist, isn't the prospect of bringing over talented people from foreign countries to work in America and help our companies profit plus deprive their home countries of their skills a really, really good thing?

> companies profit plus deprive their home countries of their skills a really, really good thing?

These are the same people who claim that people should immigrate legally, but then close all legal avenues of immigrating.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#350

Post by ckaygusu »

armada651 wrote: post #302
ckaygusu wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are still conflating legal status and visa in an improper way. The I94 expiration case can happen in practice. I don't know all possible cases, but at least for H1B done through change of status, you are not required to get a visa as long as you do not leave the country. And no, you r I-94 does not expire for three years, so it is entirely possible to complete a whole H1B period without a visa.

As an H1 all your authorizations are tied to your Visa in some way. They may not expire at the same time, but if you have no way of acquiring a new visa (which under this suspension, you don't) you're in trouble whether you leave the country or not. > You are still conflating legal status and visa in an improper way. I am and you should speak to your immigration lawyer if your visa is expiring.

Oh man.

I am going through F1->H1B process. I do not have an H1B visa, and I have a document that tells me I am allowed to stay in the country in the H1B status between a time period, and you are telling me I am in trouble because I do not have a visa. Ok, I suppose.

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