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Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

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Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#301

Post by pramttl »

I can see how some people see this as positive but the premise that a talented and hard working foreign worker takes a job away from a citizen is short-sighted. Zoom out a little and instead of a talented and hardworking foreign employee taking a job you will see (on an average) that they help grow or expand projects and companies that opens door to hiring more people. Not only do they pay tax here and support social security benefits that many enjoy, they also help businesses survive and grow and help them stay competitive in a global market.

I'm not calling for open doors to everyone, this certainly needs a balanced approach. However, with such suspensions I think we seem to be going one extreme path. Global talent has helped develop industries and businesses here. Increasing restrictions to this extent and suspending these visas is going to push this talent out and promising businesses who want to get the best talent to work with them, will not-immediately but definitely follow their way out too. I hope the people who are celebrating this, at-least for a few minutes, come out of the myopic view and look at the long term economic consequences.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#302

Post by armada651 »

ckaygusu wrote: post #256
armada651 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your I-94 still has an expiration date, if you can't renew your Visa then your I-94 will expire eventually. Once the I-94 expires your stay is illegal. Also you're still overstaying your Visa, which is going to affect your future applications. Also how would you transition to another visa when applications are suspended? You'll have to live in the United States without a job in the hopes the suspension is lifted befo…

You are still conflating legal status and visa in an improper way. The I94 expiration case can happen in practice. I don't know all possible cases, but at least for H1B done through change of status, you are not required to get a visa as long as you do not leave the country. And no, you r I-94 does not expire for three years, so it is entirely possible to complete a whole H1B period without a visa.

As an H1 all your authorizations are tied to your Visa in some way. They may not expire at the same time, but if you have no way of acquiring a new visa (which under this suspension, you don't) you're in trouble whether you leave the country or not.

> You are still conflating legal status and visa in an improper way.

I am and you should speak to your immigration lawyer if your visa is expiring.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#303

Post by NotSammyHagar »

austincheney wrote: post #233

My common sense frustration here is how can the US possibly have a critical shortage of developers on languages that are 20 to 50 years old? We have the third highest population in the world and claim to have excellent education, and these are high paying jobs at 2x-3x the national average yearly income. So what qualifies the shortage? Is it like agriculture where Americans are too entitled for the work? Are American…

There are just too many jobs and not enough qualified devs. Even in the pandemic. It's worse if you block our international people by limiting visas.

There's already a shortage of devs of course in he US. Plenty of companies have thousands of openings even in the pandemic - of course there are places that stopped hiring or even shutdown and people lost jobs.

If you lower the labor pool size, pay should go up, ease of employment should go up for those who can work here. There's already a shortage of engineers in those special fields like cobol. So it will be even harder for banks for hire for them if you can't get say people from India to move here and work on that. If you are working on a modern language with modern tools, libs etc (c++ or java) why would you want to go back to that old world where there were probably not tests, automation like we have today? If you have 10 years exp in one of the say top 10 tech cities in the us you are probably making at least 300k. I just don't see banks hiring someone like me and paying me enough more to match that far less desirable job. So that leads to banks only having a hiring pool of people who will work for less for various reasons (location, less exp, not interested or trained on c++).

I think this will just lead to more outsourcing to other countries, even though that has its own +/-, and imagine a world where some large us banks lost so much tech ability they are dependent on people in other countries (maybe already happened).

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#304

Post by hyper0perator »

awillen wrote: post #22
Forgeties79 wrote: post #4

This has gotten very old very fast (beyond the obvious cruelty). I have several friends who keep watching their colleagues just have to up and leave over this and it’s causing a ton of issues for businesses that employ folks on work visas in general. It’s just disruptive to be disruptive/feed the base.

It's just silly... even if you're a nationalist, isn't the prospect of bringing over talented people from foreign countries to work in America and help our companies profit plus deprive their home countries of their skills a really, really good thing?

Companies profit but citizens lose out. Those two entities should not be conflated. This is akin to the outsourcing of many industries such as pharmaceuticals and medical supplies to countries that do not have the same worker or health regulations as the US.

The visa workers are second-class citizens and exploited by companies to keep cost low. It undermines all workers and in the long run undermines all nations involved. Take the US's relationship with China manufacturing where China has some of the worst pollution and is one of the largest world polluters as they do not adhere to any of the same regulations that nations of the west adhere to.

Currently there is the narrative that the US has a shortage of talented STEM. This is untrue. The shortage is due to a skewed labor market that suppresses opportunity for US citizens in the same way that a US manufacturer wouldn't be able to compete against a Chinese manufacturer not because we don't have the technology, demand, or resources, but that the difference in regulations makes it more costly.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#305

Post by triceratops »

P_I_Staker wrote: post #293
jusonchan81 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess this is indeed an issue. I’m a manager and I am trying to hire. 100% I’d rather find a person who can start in a couple of weeks than several months for a candidate who needs immigration. But there are rarely any local applicants and even when there are they don’t make in the interview. We pay in excess of 300k for all roles so it’s not like we are trying to find cheap talent.

Something isn't adding up here, even in areas with high COL people are clamoring for jobs like that. I'm not saying it never happens, something just doesn't sound right. Also, the vast majority of people on H1-Bs that I've worked with are quite... average. It's nothing against them, but I doubt they were blowing people away in the interview. Many of them do have better attitudes, though. That's not to say that there…

Off-topic, but just a tip. "could of" is never correct (nor is "would of" or "should of").

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#306

Post by kjksf »

jjoonathan wrote: post #195
Sam_Odio wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's a valid reason as to why it's being done (to prioritize Americans out of work) The "Fixed pie fallacy" [1] is probably both one of the most important tenants of modern policy-making, yet it's rarely explicitly discussed or debated. Cyclone_, your thinking relies on this fallacy, namely that if one person is working a job, that's one less job available. [2] In reality, there is quite a bit of empirical resea…

If globalization and automation are so good at job creation, why did the American manufacturing workforce collapse? Economies are complex, counter-intuitive feedback machines, but the "supply and demand" model fits the last 40 years of data, while the "floats all boats" model really doesn't. "Lump of labor is a fallacy, honest!" sure sounds like the kind of opinion I could get a good penny for if I were an enterprisi…

He was talking about software jobs.

"More than half of the top American tech companies were founded by immigrants or the children of immigrants"

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/30/us-tech-companies-founded-by...

Recent immigrants were responsible for creating tens of thousands of jobs, most of them for Americans.

Software isn't a zero-sum game even on a country level and certainly US benefits enormously because companies like Apple, Google, Facebook, Twitter, Netflix etc. are global giants but employ massive amounts of highly paid people in US.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#307

Post by triceratops »

joelbluminator wrote: post #25

And yet everyone and their mother wanna move there no matter the price paid in uncertainty, pressure and mental health. They could try go to a country with a straight forward immigration process like Canada, but money is more important than anything else to some people.

Do you think that's not already happening?

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#308

Post by theduder99 »

remote_phone wrote: post #112

Anyone who thinks this is good for the US is stupid. In the era of remote working, all this will do it hasten the retreat of software engineering from the US. Facebook and Google do not care where their employees live, they want the best in the world. This will just mean that jobs will truly flee the US. Right now the US is winning because of such a high concentration of talented software engineers compared to the re…

Facebook and Google could have converted their entire software dev workforce to Indians in India any time they wanted. But they didn't, I wonder why hmmmmm.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#309

Post by hysan »

If you step out of the tech (STEM) bubble, you’ll see that this is going to have a lot of collateral damage. There are niche industries where H-1B is an actual necessity. I know that what people complain about, especially on a tech centric site like HN, is how it’s used in the development industry, but I hope that people remember that there is a world outside of tech that this negatively impacts.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#310

Post by fredfoobar »

x87678r wrote: post #268

Reminder of the top H1B employers. Its not about high tech workers in SV. https://www.h1bdata.org/employers Employer Name Employees Hired (All Years) Infosys Limited 182,945 Tata Consultancy Services Limited 102,722 Deloitte Consulting Llp 65,976 Wipro Limited 63,354 Accenture Llp 51,360 Ibm India Private Limited 47,839 Capgemini America Inc 40,954 Microsoft Corporation 40,828 Ernst Young Us Llp 38,631 Cognizant Tech…

Shut them down.
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