Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year • Hacker News Board

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#261

Post by sixothree » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:46 PM UTC

dx87 wrote: post #58

awillen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just silly... even if you're a nationalist, isn't the prospect of bringing over talented people from foreign countries to work in America and help our companies profit plus deprive their home countries of their skills a really, really good thing?

If H-1B visas were being used how they were intended, they would be a good thing, but we often see them used as a way to get cheap labor, or even directly replace American workers. The company I work at has H-1B junior web developers, hardly "very niche, hard to fill" positions that they can't find any qualified Americans to do.

We have h1b employees at our company. If we were to lose them right now it would be a significant disruption.

Personally, I can't take time out of my job to train employees - which in our case could easily take three months. I can't even imagine us finding and hiring some at this time. These guys are an absolute asset to the company.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#262

Post by triceratops » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:47 PM UTC

OzzyB wrote: post #227

runawaybottle wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free college I guess. Oh wait... That’s a very interesting thing, I had no idea. So a sensible thing to do would be to increase that fee substantially and have it go straight to subsidizing degree programs that aren’t creating enough home grown talent. In other words, the company should expect to pay close to market rate per H1B plus the fee. We remove the incentives to abuse the program for cost reduction, and strai…

That's a good idea, but alas I fear such a proposal would be deemed too... umm nationalistic or something... better to have local talent pay through the nose for their qualifications so that they can then compete on the global market with folks that don't have such debt.

> such a proposal would be deemed too... umm nationalistic or something

I think you meant "socialist".

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#263

Post by jen20 » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:47 PM UTC

jusonchan81 wrote: post #137

dx87 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If H-1B visas were being used how they were intended, they would be a good thing, but we often see them used as a way to get cheap labor, or even directly replace American workers. The company I work at has H-1B junior web developers, hardly "very niche, hard to fill" positions that they can't find any qualified Americans to do.

I guess this is indeed an issue. I’m a manager and I am trying to hire. 100% I’d rather find a person who can start in a couple of weeks than several months for a candidate who needs immigration. But there are rarely any local applicants and even when there are they don’t make in the interview. We pay in excess of 300k for all roles so it’s not like we are trying to find cheap talent.

Without more context it's hard to know what the problem is there, but I strongly doubt it's that there is "no" talent locally available to start within a couple of weeks, whether it's a US citizen or foreign national with an existing work visa.

A small list of things that people may consider:

- competitive salary. 300k is one thing in (for example) Kansas City, but completely another in the Bay Area or New York City where it's not uncommon for senior roles to deliver at least a third again, if not more.

- the ethics of the company - does it engage in questionable behaviour? For example spying on users, building weapons, formenting unrest via algorithmic news feeds and so forth?

- the fundamental health of the company from a financial and existential perspective.

- does the company have a local reputation for being a poor place to work? For example, is it a bureaucracy where no-one can get anything done? Does it have a notoriously poor work-life balance, "face time" expectations, a culture where the loudest or most senior voice always prevails in decisions? What does Glassdoor (or levels.fyi) say about it?

- are the technologies you're hiring for overly specific? Are your job ads a buzzword bingo of "nice to have" frameworks, libraries or practices? Do the ads make it clear that experience in them is not required, provided you can learn them quickly thanks to experience of concepts or adjacent technologies?

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#264

Post by ivank » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:47 PM UTC

jusonchan81 wrote: post #137

dx87 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If H-1B visas were being used how they were intended, they would be a good thing, but we often see them used as a way to get cheap labor, or even directly replace American workers. The company I work at has H-1B junior web developers, hardly "very niche, hard to fill" positions that they can't find any qualified Americans to do.

I guess this is indeed an issue. I’m a manager and I am trying to hire. 100% I’d rather find a person who can start in a couple of weeks than several months for a candidate who needs immigration. But there are rarely any local applicants and even when there are they don’t make in the interview. We pay in excess of 300k for all roles so it’s not like we are trying to find cheap talent.

Do you have any postings describing the roles you're hiring for? My email is in my profile if you don't want to share here.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#265

Post by newsclues » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:47 PM UTC

Forgeties79 wrote: post #4

This has gotten very old very fast (beyond the obvious cruelty). I have several friends who keep watching their colleagues just have to up and leave over this and it’s causing a ton of issues for businesses that employ folks on work visas in general. It’s just disruptive to be disruptive/feed the base.

The system was abused, and now there are consequences.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#266

Post by fsociety » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:47 PM UTC

Honestly I’m so tired of this shit. I can’t leave the US without the risk of not being able to come back, and my Mom is in a different country in a high risk category for COVID-19.

If she is infected and hospitalized, I have to quit my job and leave my home to spend last moments with her. Fuck Trump.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#267

Post by rootsudo » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:48 PM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #233

My common sense frustration here is how can the US possibly have a critical shortage of developers on languages that are 20 to 50 years old? We have the third highest population in the world and claim to have excellent education, and these are high paying jobs at 2x-3x the national average yearly income. So what qualifies the shortage? Is it like agriculture where Americans are too entitled for the work? Are American…

1. Developers dying, aging out, retiring.

2. No real investment/push into learning legacy langauges.

3. Philippines/Indian BPO encourage and actually train on the job. If you look at accenture/whatever agency, even IBM, they'll guarantee a job in that country if they stick with the on the job training. In those countries, entry level, know nothing developers make $500/$1000 a month, best, vs being experienced in the USA and making a minimum of $5000. 6-12K/yr is waaayyy cheaper then, 70K/yr. I feel like it's employer idea of infinite monkey theorem.

It's not entitlement, it's that in the USA, employers have to compete and everyone can easily get a job in IT that isn't even programming for $40-50k, think of help desk. All you have to do is show up, restart a few computers, and be relatable.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#268

Post by x87678r » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:48 PM UTC

Reminder of the top H1B employers. Its not about high tech workers in SV.

https://www.h1bdata.org/employers

Employer Name Employees Hired (All Years) Infosys Limited 182,945 Tata Consultancy Services Limited 102,722 Deloitte Consulting Llp 65,976 Wipro Limited 63,354 Accenture Llp 51,360 Ibm India Private Limited 47,839 Capgemini America Inc 40,954 Microsoft Corporation 40,828 Ernst Young Us Llp 38,631 Cognizant Technology Solutions Us Corp 34,138

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#269

Post by noobermin » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:48 PM UTC

joubert wrote: post #259

austincheney wrote: post #233

My common sense frustration here is how can the US possibly have a critical shortage of developers on languages that are 20 to 50 years old? We have the third highest population in the world and claim to have excellent education, and these are high paying jobs at 2x-3x the national average yearly income. So what qualifies the shortage? Is it like agriculture where Americans are too entitled for the work? Are American…

“Foreign nationals account for 81 percent of the full-time graduate students in electrical engineering, 79 percent in computer science, 75 percent in industrial engineering, 69 percent in statistics, 63 percent in mechanical engineering, 59 percent in civil engineering, and 57 percent in chemical engineering.” — https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2019/02/americas-stem-cri...

College courses aren't necessarily zero sum if SV would considering hiring from state universities.

Re: Executive order expected to suspend H-1B, other visas until end of year

#270

Post by triceratops » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:48 PM UTC

tinyhouse wrote: post #175

samfisher83 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can look at the data, SV companies aren't paying H1B people low wages. Unless you think 200-300k is low wages.

Salary is not even the issue. The main issue is the employment restrictions. Instead of making H1-B a visa that lets an individual full freedom (like green card), it's tied to an employer and moving jobs is not that easy, and many employers also sponsor for green card, which is another process that can take years and make it harder to move. During this time the employee has little leverage asking for promo or raises.…

H-1B holders can change jobs even without a green card. It's more of a hassle (takes 4-6 weeks) and has been made worse by this administration's repeated suspension of premium processing of applications. But visa holders aren't "tied" to their employers or "indentured servants".