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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#411

Post by reaperducer »

nodamage wrote: post #190

While I agree that Apple should probably relax their rules, this list of "exceptions" is not particularly compelling. The majority of them are companion apps for physical products/memberships for which the rules around in-app purchases do not apply: Tesla, Soho House, Wells Fargo, Blue Cross / Blue Shield, WeWork. Github has a free tier and doesn't require a paying membership to use. Netflix is a digital content app…

Releasing an app that does not follow the rules and then publicly complaining when it is inevitably rejected is starting to seem more like a guerrilla marketing tactic more than anything else.

And be sure to do it right before WWDC. We've seen this play before.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#412

Post by Wowfunhappy »

jpttsn wrote: post #399
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I can buy a fridge at Costco, buy food from Sam's Club, and still store my food in my fridge. I don't have to throw out Costco's fridge in order to buy food elsewhere.

Your fridge is compatible with any food. Your iPhone is not compatible with any software. Some things are compatible and some things are not. Edit: “Compatible” is not about the tech in this case (the binary would theoretically run) but about the terms of your agreement with the manufacturer. If you buy a Costco fridge and with it a contract to only store Costco-sold food in it, then you have a better analogy. 80% of…

Sorry, I don't understand where you're going with this. There's an updated Hey app on the developer's computer which is compatible with my iPhone, but Apple isn't letting me install it.

--

Edit response: How many people do you think read the agreement they signed with Apple? How many realize Apple is increasing the price of software by ~30%?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#413

Post by twicetwice »

salawat wrote: post #382
roenxi wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But Apple customers can be sure of that anyway--just don't sideload apps. Well, no. At some point they'd need to know what it is to decide if they wanted it or not. At some point they'd encounter an App that isn't in the App store and have to figure out sideloading. We've got a whole heap of people commenting here today who give off a distinct "I want to bypass the App Store" vibe. User hat on, I'd rather they were…

Maybe... Just putting this out there. Just maybe... Instead of having your phone double as an ad delivery platform, and actually fully embracing Open hardware/software standards, and making sure the innards of your phone's operating principles are absolutely visible to you, you wouldn't have to trust your safety to people that look at you like cattle. Imagine a world, where your Telco or anyone else for that matter c…

I mean, I agree with you. I'm right there with you. But you and I both know that that model won't work for most people. They'll be in the same place they are today—having to trust when other people tell them their phone is safe.

Incidentally, to the last paragraph, you can help make it work—go work on Linux mobile UX/UI. Things like the PinePhone and the Purism Librem 5 exist, and there's a market for them, they're just missing a polished user experience.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#414

Post by malwarebytess »

I have to wonder about the health of the industry when rent-seeking becomes the norm. Rent-seeking stifles innovation and true growth, and is a sign of a degenerate system.

>The reforms of Diocletian and Constantine made all productive activity impossible. The reason is not that there were no more large fortunes, but the foundation of their build-up was now no longer creative energy, or the discovery and bring into use new sources of wealth, or the improvement and development of husbandry, industry and commerce. It was, on the contrary, the cunning exploitation of a privileged position used to despoil people.

https://medium.com/@guisebule/rise-of-the-rent-seeker-how-th...

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#415

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

jpttsn wrote: post #351
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know what I signed up for. Why should I feel entitled to anything else? I bought an iPhone and had no idea bit torrent clients were banned

Did you return it, or did it not matter enough to change the purchase decision?

Fortunately i still have an Android phone and Android tablet where such things still exist (and i use them regularly). So I kept the iPhone because I also develop for the platform now.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#416

Post by nodamage »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #378
alasdair_ wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If they became a cultural phenomenon I'd bet that Apple would magically reinterpret their rules. Please trust me on this but, even if your app is far and away the #1 grossing app on the app store and hundreds of media outlets have literally used the term "cultural phenomenon" to describe it, Apple is still a huge stickler on the rules and it still takes forever (and a lot of stress) to get approved, every single upd…

Yes, but Apple would have a lot less power if developers could threaten (even theoretically) to go around the App Store. Even now, major apps do have power. Unlike Hey, Netflix and Amazon are at least still in the App Store, and Amazon is even allowed to sell video rentals through their app without going through Apple's payment system: https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/1/21203294/amazon-prime-vide... Edit: My posts pro…

Netflix and Amazon Prime Video as digital video content providers are specifically exempted from the IAP rules according to section 3.1.3(a) of the App Store review guidelines.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#417

Post by reaperducer »

landric wrote: post #326
hakcermani wrote: post #11

Good start with compiling the list .. a couple more .. AirBnb, All airline apps. Maybe they have contracts with the big guys for some lump sum deal, or maybe they are just letting them go as they have to ... We developers already pay for the subscription, WWDC, a shiny iPhone / MBP every couple of years (to test and develop the new features :(, learn a language and sdks just for the Apple world - We Devs need Apple f…

[OP of the site] I tried to limit the list to apps where you couldn't get to _any_ functionality without logging in. AirBnB lets you browse around etc. Airlines let you look at dates / availability. I included Wells Fargo, however, because I thought it was wild that they're able to provide straight web links to Safari to sign up for banking services, whereas Hey has to pretend like accounts are bestowed via divine in…

If you don't know the difference between a bank and Hey, then there's probably nothing anyone can do to convince you that your position isn't tenable.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#418

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

screwycaboose wrote: post #400
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #315

I am amazed how many people on HN are defending Apple. I had the naive assumption that my fellow tech savvy would denounce this. The comments here are eye-opening. It is as if a lot of people just don’t see or don’t care about monopoly or monopolistic behavior. The product is great, Apple is has the highest market cap of any company in the world, it’s founder has god-like status. What’s the problem?

Because it's not a monopoly. Apple is roughly half of the marketshare in the US, and dramatically lower than that worldwide. They're also not saying that Hey can't be in their store, or even needs to pay them anything. Hey could offer a free tier and wouldn't owe Apple a dime. Basecamp already does this so they know it very well.

s/monopoly/anti-competitive

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#419

Post by screwycaboose »

dan-robertson wrote: post #377
screwycaboose wrote: post #201

Seems like a lot of these examples are intentionally ignoring the rules that allow them as exceptions just to build up a bigger strawman: * Netflix: Reader app (reader is a special Apple exception for movies/tv, books, news... mass-market media) * Github: Offers a free tier * App store connect: I mean come on, it's an Apple dev tool * Tesla: exception for physical goods Basecamp/Hey knew this was going to happen. It'…

> Also, where has Basecamp been for the decade prior? Funny how they're propping this as some rightgeous issue when it suddenly impacts their bottom line. I think they testified in the US Congress about Apple’s practices recently

Recently enough that they happened to be working on Hey at the same time.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#420

Post by baddox »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #357
baddox wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don’t think the distinction is actually as clear as you describe it. Most of these apps are clients for a server-based product that you’re paying for. One could argue that the Netflix app isn’t the product, it’s just a video player that you use to connect to the server that you’re paying to have access to. If Netflix just exposed .mp4 links in a web browser, then it would work fine in Safari on an iPhone. Or i…

I addressed this. It's not a watertight mathematically provable law, but I think that with the majority of apps, a reasonable person making a good faith effort would have the same conclusion as me. I said if it's the only realistic alternative is to use an app or browser. I also said that the product might "live" on a server, but if you can only access it via app or browser then the product is an app. Most of these p…

I'm not disputing the fact that, barring some controversial edge cases, most people could probably agree on the classification. My point is that Apple clearly appears to be claiming that there are some very clear rules that are followed strictly without any personal judgement about any particular app or company. A lot of their PR about this stuff has been of the form "we're not making any judgments about you, we're just following the rules" (never mind that it's their rules in the first place).

But I think that's pretty clearly not the case, and moreover, I think people might be just as upset if Apple's policies said "we just use our common sense to classify apps and determine which features they can use on our platform" and then appeared to apply those determinations inconsistently.

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