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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#401

Post by madeofpalk »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #52

I think there needs to be some distinction between apps that are the main product (or close to it) and apps that support another product (like there is npo point to having the app by itself, you should already have gotten the product/account before downloading the app). I don't know too much about Apple's rules to know if they use that criteria, but it makes sense to me. An app to manage your Tesla makes no sense unl…

> one other thing I haven't seen whether Basecamp could just charge $141.43 per year if someone pays through Apple, so Basecamp would get $99 per year after Apple takes their 30% cut.

This is far from ideal for two reasons:

1) Some users will be paying 30% more just because they signed up in the app. How is this a good experience that protects the user?

2) most importantly, Basecamp loses the ability to manage the financial aspects of the customer relationship. They’re unable to give discounts, credit, refunds, add time to the subscription etc. It’s a hassle for all the back office management as now some customers come through a completely different billing + subscription platform.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#402

Post by bogwog »

zaroth wrote: post #163
mikenew wrote: post #118

I've been a freelance iOS app developer for almost a decade. Apple has always operated this way. They have rules that are somewhat vague, and they choose when they want to enforce them and how they should be interpreted. For example: you weren't allowed to show device bezels in app store screenshots for a long time, even though all the major apps did exactly that. If you were a small time developer though you would g…

Humans applying policy will be inconsistent. The alternative is Google where algorithms apply policy, and if they misapply a policy to you're simply screwed. I think the inverse to "Apple employed humans make a judgement call" is "Apple is no longer allowed to control their App Store". I don't like that option, because the curated App Store is a big reason why I bought an iPhone.

> I think the inverse to "Apple employed humans make a judgement call" is "Apple is no longer allowed to control their App Store".

I think the right alternative is "Users should have a choice of app stores"

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#403

Post by coin3x »

searchableguy wrote: post #125
hendzen wrote: post #37

Apple takes a 30% cut of all IAP. Google scrapes info and displays it in widgets above links to the actual content. Google charges trademark holders AdWords ransom to protect searches for their own brands. Amazon kills OSS business models by offering managed OSS services on AWS at an unbeatable cost. Amazon picks off the best performing market place categories with Amazon Basics ‘recommended’ competitors. The list go…

On a more general tone, does anti trust cover knowingly destroying communities and open source tools? All the problems from app store racket still applies such as the tax. And I am not saying android doesn't need a lot of those changes, it's just they break things without helping. There are many examples if you look around. 1. Disguised ads in search results (they have been making ads less obvious) - https://i.postim…

> 3. At Google I/O 2018, Google introduced an alternative app distribution format called the Android App Bundle with the file extension .aab. This format requires giving a copy of your app’s signing key to Google. AABs are harder for users to manually sideload as they aren’t natively supported by Android’s package installer and must be unpacked and devs have to do more work to distribute on other platforms.

App bundle is a way to reduce hassle of uploading multiple apks for cutting down apk size on different targets. Developers can and always have to build regular apks for other distribution platforms or for users to sideload. I don't see how AAB makes devs do more work.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#404

Post by kd913 »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #305
pdonis wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should software makers share their revenue with Apple? Why should Apple care what software makers want? I get that it's a pain to develop software for the iPhone and then have to pay rent to Apple to get it to users; but that's not Apple's problem unless enough users either complain or switch hardware to cut into Apple's revenue. That doesn't seem to be happening. Sure, there are plenty of users (I'm one of the…

Yeah, it’s a little like the Mafia used to do: give us a monthly payment or we’ll, ya know, make sure you’re of business. And you’re defending that?

I don't think he is defending it, I think he is correctly rationalising that this is the effect of devs and users buying into Apple's walled Garden. This is what devs and users caused by supporting the Google Apple duopoly. You bought in you play by their rules.

Personally I think devs should just pass the 30% to consumers or withdraw their apps. That is how you get leverage.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#405

Post by baddox »

echelon wrote: post #349
baddox wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t agree with that explanation of the gaming console exception. Modern consoles are actually quite similar to smartphones in the breadth of their functionality. To be consistent I think you’d need to include consoles, most smart TVs and media streamers, and even tech-heavy cars.

Gaming consoles aren't general purpose computers. You're not going to do banking, email your boss, find a lover, or order groceries from them. They're unnecessary leisure commodities. There are also three major consoles, PC, Steam, and a ton of other ways to distribute games. It's a highly competitive landscape. If you want a phone, you've got only two options. DOJ, burn the Apple and Google monopolies to the ground.

I think gaming consoles are general purpose computers. You listed a few things that probably aren't done very often on consoles (although you likely can do them, since consoles have web browsers). But it's also easy to list things that are much better-suited to be done on a gaming console than a smartphone.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#406

Post by nodamage »

realtalk_sp wrote: post #346
nodamage wrote: post #190

While I agree that Apple should probably relax their rules, this list of "exceptions" is not particularly compelling. The majority of them are companion apps for physical products/memberships for which the rules around in-app purchases do not apply: Tesla, Soho House, Wells Fargo, Blue Cross / Blue Shield, WeWork. Github has a free tier and doesn't require a paying membership to use. Netflix is a digital content app…

Wow it's almost like Apple designed their rules so that most of the key businesses in this world don't pay an insane 30% of their revenue to Apple. Almost like Apple say...doesn't want to discourage important institutions from providing services Apple's customers might expect from iOS. Crazy coincidence. /s

I mean, 1) why is anyone surprised by this? 2) If you make an app that sells cat videos you would also qualify for the digital content exemption, "key business" or not.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#407

Post by nodamage »

SpaceRaccoon wrote: post #246
gruez wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>While I agree that Apple should probably relax their rules, this list of "exceptions" is not particularly compelling. Yeah, the first few items on the list were relatively convincing, but the convincing-ness takes a nosedive further down the list. I mean, who in their right mind would compare hey to a companion app for a car?

It's not about that. It's about the VP's explanation being disingenuous. Apple's issue isn't that the app doesn't work, despite their claim. It's that they can't collect money. They should just be honest.

I agree that's a crappy explanation by the VP but that's not the actual reason for the rejection.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#408

Post by reaperducer »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #52

I think there needs to be some distinction between apps that are the main product (or close to it) and apps that support another product (like there is npo point to having the app by itself, you should already have gotten the product/account before downloading the app). I don't know too much about Apple's rules to know if they use that criteria, but it makes sense to me. An app to manage your Tesla makes no sense unl…

An app to manage your Tesla makes no sense unless you own a Tesla

I just had a vision of Apple demanding 30% of the cost of each Tesla sold.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#409

Post by OpieCunningham »

acituan wrote: post #381
roenxi wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These things are true; and also a significant component of Apple's value proposition. An Apple customer can be sure they will: 1) Never need to learn what a "sideload" is 2) Never be exposed to Apps that havn't been vetted by a trustworthy party (in this case Apple) Apple is taking the opportunity to milk app developers, but they've done an effective job of positioning the milking process so that it is done in the us…

> These things are true; and also a significant component of Apple's value proposition You're describing the value of an app store, not the App Store. So the problem is not the value proposition, the problem is Apple's monopoly on this value proposition. It is why we can't have a Google iOS App Store, Microsoft iOS App store etc. list from which the user can pick, which would completely satisfy the convenience and pe…

a Cydia App Store

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#410

Post by screwycaboose »

1123581321 wrote: post #358
mns wrote: post #49

So nice for the people of Basecamp to be fighting the good fight for everyone and the small developers. It’s not like they were perfectly fine with the system as long as it didn’t affect them, being one of the “famous” companies out there, while independent developers and small start-ups had to deal with this for years and years. I was excited about hey before, and even though I don’t agree and don’t like the way the…

They weren’t fine. They spoke against Google, Facebook and Apple last year in front of Congress. https://exponentsmag.org/2020/02/11/antitrust-for-thee-profi...

Last year in front of Congress (while actively developing this new product). They never mentioned it despite Basecamp being in the app store for years and paying Apple $0.

The "oh my this is shocking and unfair" act is all a ruse. They've been well aware of this since the onset, they even copied Netflix's app text so they can feign "see we're just like them!" despite knowing they're not.

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