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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#301

Post by pcwalton »

reustle wrote: post #284

I have no horse in this race, but it has been interesting to watch the conversations grow over the past few days on this topic. Some people are so pro-Apple on this, clearly ignoring some of the primary complaints (like no option to not use the App Store for distribution). As I get older, I can't help but wonder if these people are simply shareholders of Apple (or any company in a discussion like this). Is this good…

There's no need to accuse people of being shills. Some people legitimately prefer walled gardens.

(I'm not one of them, by the way: I'm 100% on the side of Hey.)

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#302

Post by newbie578 »

cientifico wrote: post #19
iSoron wrote: post #5

> "That’s not what we want on the store" -- Apple Vice President of Worldwide Marketing What if I own an iPhone and HEY is what I want on my phone? How can I override Apple's decision? If I can't, who really owns this device?

If you ask this questions, you shouldn't have an iPhone on the first place.

If you can state such a statement and not understand his statement, you shouldn't comment in the first place :)

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#303

Post by eddieroger »

iSoron wrote: post #5

> "That’s not what we want on the store" -- Apple Vice President of Worldwide Marketing What if I own an iPhone and HEY is what I want on my phone? How can I override Apple's decision? If I can't, who really owns this device?

It’s their store, and they get to pick what’s in it. If you want stuff not available in that store, you need a new store. You own the phone, but you agreed to only load software on it from the one store, as it has been for the last decade.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#304

Post by dan-robertson »

pdonis wrote: post #251
MrStonedOne wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel it pertinent to point out that comments like yours help keep the status quo. Pointing out that apple is not alone in a thread trying to raise awareness about apple's practices both distracts from apple's unethical behavior and contributes to normalizing the behavior in public perception. So my question to you is: do you want to see these unethical behaviors end? or continue?

Why is it unethical to charge a fee to developers who want to distribute their software through an app store that Apple owns? I get that it's unpleasant for developers who don't like the policy, and at some point it might have business consequences for Apple if they don't change the policy, but why is it unethical?

I think it would be ethical to charge a fee to distribute software. You can imagine a world where each upload to the App Store would cast say $100. But the issue people complain about is that they are forced to use Apple as a middleman for all their payments and that Apple charges exorbitant fees for this

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#305

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

pdonis wrote: post #239
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should software makers share their revenue with Apple? We don’t do it on android, Windows, macOS, linux, or anything else. The only value added by Apple is some kind of vetting (they don’t do code review, they just check that the app meets their recommendations... and they are called RECOMMENDATIONS not REQUIEMENTS). My app was recently rejected because i refused to sell in-app purchases and want to keep purchase…

> Why should software makers share their revenue with Apple? Why should Apple care what software makers want? I get that it's a pain to develop software for the iPhone and then have to pay rent to Apple to get it to users; but that's not Apple's problem unless enough users either complain or switch hardware to cut into Apple's revenue. That doesn't seem to be happening. Sure, there are plenty of users (I'm one of the…

Yeah, it’s a little like the Mafia used to do: give us a monthly payment or we’ll, ya know, make sure you’re of business.

And you’re defending that?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#306

Post by holoduke »

iOS and the Playstore do not respect equality. low tier publishers are treated completely different than the bigger ones. if those stores would be real shoppingmalls they would have long be brought to court. Apple and Google play the game smart. consumers are happy and are not aware of the underlying ugliness of their business activities. smaller publishers / developers have a hard time making a voice against these unfair eco system aspects. so far nothing is changing. the top charts of both the Playstore and iOS consists of apps which are best for the business models Google and iOS have slightly different business models. but in the end of the day it's all about advertising, data collections and IAPs.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#307

Post by Wowfunhappy »

ratww wrote: post #282
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should software makers share their revenue with Apple? We don’t do it on android, Windows, macOS, linux, or anything else. The only value added by Apple is some kind of vetting (they don’t do code review, they just check that the app meets their recommendations... and they are called RECOMMENDATIONS not REQUIEMENTS). My app was recently rejected because i refused to sell in-app purchases and want to keep purchase…

> ...or anything else. I'll bring it up again: game consoles. Steam. And no, they don't deserve a pass.

I do think game consoles kind of deserve a pass [1], but okay, I can see where you're coming from with that.

Why Steam? No one ever has to use Steam--you can install whatever you want on your PC. Steam isn't even installed by default in 99% of cases.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23579943

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#308

Post by realtalk_sp »

Spivak wrote: post #277
realtalk_sp wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've repeated this argument several times and you're starting to sound like an Apple shill. The idea that the App Store (with 2M+ apps) is a meaningful source of customer acquisition is utter horseshit. In fact it's now the opposite since Apple will sometimes place ads for competitor apps ahead of your own in search results.

I only repeat the argument so I get to hear a bunch of people’s takes on it. Once you’re deep in a thread it’s pretty much only you and the person you’re replying to. I don’t think the App Store is the source of customer acquisition. I think being able to sell on iOS devices is the source of customer acquisition. Being able to upsell a user to your premium service right there on the device is the valuable thing that…

This is a really ambiguous, unusual, and (in my opinion) inappropriate use of the term "customer acquisition".

The App Store is a marketplace that connects people developing for a platform (iOS) to customers using devices compatible with that platform. It is also the only marketplace that does this. In this way, it is best thought of as a (monopolistic) distribution channel.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#309

Post by Shared404 »

roenxi wrote: post #213
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can use Google Chrome, and still use a non-Google search engine. I can use a Kindle, and still read DRM-Free epubs. Yes, all the major tech companies are engaged in rent seeking. But Apple is the only one that says users must either must pay rent or throw away their hardware. The App Store and its policies are not the problem. The App Store is Apple's store, just like Amazon.com is Amazon's store. But the App Store…

These things are true; and also a significant component of Apple's value proposition. An Apple customer can be sure they will: 1) Never need to learn what a "sideload" is 2) Never be exposed to Apps that havn't been vetted by a trustworthy party (in this case Apple) Apple is taking the opportunity to milk app developers, but they've done an effective job of positioning the milking process so that it is done in the us…

> 2) Never be exposed to Apps that havn't been vetted by a trustworthy party (in this case Apple)

My understanding is that neither major mobile app store has done a great job of vetting.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#310

Post by zeroimpl »

curyous wrote: post #285
pdonis wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it unethical to charge a fee to developers who want to distribute their software through an app store that Apple owns? I get that it's unpleasant for developers who don't like the policy, and at some point it might have business consequences for Apple if they don't change the policy, but why is it unethical?

It’s the size of the fee that is unethical.

Taxes are paid by the consumer. Ideally developers should price things based on how much revenue they want per transaction, and have the 30% fee shown to the user.

If that were the case, there would be nothing unethical about a 30% tax nor a 90% tax.

Therefore, it’s not the size that’s the problem, but the fact that the tax isn’t communicated to the consumer, and also that Apple wants you to charge the same price in-app as elsewhere (though I’m not sure if that part is enforced)

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