Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 559 posts

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#261

Post by evan_ »

humanistbot wrote: post #81
dariusj18 wrote: post #48

I know it's not part of the principle, but is there anything in the rules that says you can't charge an additional fee to those signing up using in app payments? If this is the hill Apple chooses to die on, every Apple customer just has to pay an additional 30ish% for a service, but of course you can always sign up online for the special sale price.

Yes, markups are explicitly forbidden and will get you kicked off the app store.

Youtube Premium is more expensive if you buy it as an in-app subscription. $15.99 vs $11.99

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#262

Post by frouge »

We just need to realize that there is only have been two viable platform for apps since smartphones exists, and as such some decisions should not be in Apple/Google hands anymore at this point, some subjects should fall in the public space. 3.5 billion people are using smartphones today, and we shouldn't being told what to do by a few exec-dudes and their shareholder friends.

If Basecamp wants to do publish an email app - it's not porn, it's not racism, it's not bad - and that iOS users also want it, Apple should not be in the way.

I publish on the App Store and frankly I'm happy to benefit from the hosting / payments / search and I'm ok to pay a price for that - even if 30% is huge - but if some don't want that let them do what they want, it's not Apple to decide that anymore.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#263

Post by rsync »

baddox wrote: post #247
hyperpape wrote: post #50

There are a lot of rules lawyers in threads about Hey trying to figure out "tricks" that Basecamp or others could use to avoid the rule. That is not how this works. Apple is not a court, which (usually) plays by well stated rules, and cannot remake those rules at its discretion. No, if you find a "trick" to get around Apple's rules[0], what happens is that you get blocked when they catch you. They might update the ru…

It’s worth noting that courts and legal systems generally don’t work like that either. There are some examples of weird loopholes due to some specific wording of a law and things like that, but in general you can’t just get the best of the legal system because you “technically” did such and such. For example, you can’t scam someone by having a contract with extremely small print that they technically signed.

My favorite example of this was the attempt, by the Hunt Brothers, to "corner" the silver market in 1979/1980:

"But on January 7, 1980, in response to the Hunts' accumulation, the exchange rules regarding leverage were changed, when COMEX adopted "Silver Rule 7" placing heavy restrictions on the purchase of commodities on margin. The Hunt brothers had borrowed heavily to finance their purchases, and, as the price began to fall again, dropping over 50% in just four days, they were unable to meet their obligations, causing panic in the markets."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#264

Post by donmcronald »

zaroth wrote: post #163
mikenew wrote: post #118

I've been a freelance iOS app developer for almost a decade. Apple has always operated this way. They have rules that are somewhat vague, and they choose when they want to enforce them and how they should be interpreted. For example: you weren't allowed to show device bezels in app store screenshots for a long time, even though all the major apps did exactly that. If you were a small time developer though you would g…

Humans applying policy will be inconsistent. The alternative is Google where algorithms apply policy, and if they misapply a policy to you're simply screwed. I think the inverse to "Apple employed humans make a judgement call" is "Apple is no longer allowed to control their App Store". I don't like that option, because the curated App Store is a big reason why I bought an iPhone.

You can still sideload or use an alternate store on Android. The experience isn't very good, but it's still an option.

I think if the fees were split out people would lose their minds on more expensive apps because they'd recognize it isn't good value. Ex:

Hey: $70 / year

App Store Fee: $30 / year

Also, did Hey get the prices wrong or are they talking about keeping the prices the same and eating the 30%? If they want $99 in their pocket, they need to charge ~43% more. Assuming Apple takes 30% of the sale price:

- 99 * 1.43 = $141.57

- 141.57 * .3 = $42.47 for Apple

- 141.57 * .7 = $99.10 for Hey

So by taking 30% of revenue, it increases prices by 43% because if someone is taking 30% of your revenue, you need to increase your prices by 43% to break even.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#265

Post by firloop »

zaroth wrote: post #142
alfonsodev wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tesla example is unfortunate to support he point because Apple doesn’t charge 30% on physical goods. A funny idea, maybe some apps should sell a physical card, or wearable that gives you access to premium features, but it would be ecological.

Case in point - I used Apple Pay to reserve my Model 3 for $1,000.

But not in the Tesla app. Apple Pay doesn't really seem relevant here.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#266

Post by paulcole »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #224
jpttsn wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t relate to this. Some vendors sell me hardware, and I can bring my own software. Apple sells me more expensive hardware with the software only from their “partners”, which is “curated” and subject to a steep 30% distribution cut. Apple never tricked me into an iPhone believing I could run any random software. I know what I signed up for. Why should I feel entitled to anything else?

Why should software makers share their revenue with Apple? We don’t do it on android, Windows, macOS, linux, or anything else. The only value added by Apple is some kind of vetting (they don’t do code review, they just check that the app meets their recommendations... and they are called RECOMMENDATIONS not REQUIEMENTS). My app was recently rejected because i refused to sell in-app purchases and want to keep purchase…

Why does the pet store down the street from my apartment have a storefront on Amazon? Because they want access to Amazon’s customer base and are willing to pay for it.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#268

Post by sukilot »

detaro wrote: post #210
arduinomancer wrote: post #175

Why is Apple's revenue here even percentage-based at all? It makes zero sense. According to Apple they need this revenue cut because of the cost of keeping the platform running. If I offer a subscription in my app for 1$/month vs 10$/month what marginal expense is being incurred that apple deserves an extra $2.70 for the higher price?

Do you price your subscriptions purely by the marginal expense of serving the content/service to another customer? Or do you price them according to what the market will pay for your product?

Totally different. The goal here is to maximize my profit and minimize my expenses.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#269

Post by scarface74 »

robbrown451 wrote: post #228
scarface74 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does any retailer just charge credit card fees?

That's not what he is saying. He is saying that Apple is closer to being a credit card company than a retailer. When you buy something at Walmart, Walmart gets a cut, and the credit card company gets a cut. But Walmart's cut covers the costs of what they add to the transaction, which includes shipping and warehousing the product, providing a store, staffing the store, providing heating and air conditioning to the sto…

The consumer has the same alternative as well as the app maker. The app maker can charge 43% more for an in app subscription as well as offer a cheaper subscription on their site.

Consumers can price compare just like in retail.

Why would Apple allow an app maker advertise a cheaper price in its store? Would Walmart let a manufacture advertise that they can get a cheaper price at Amazon?

Even for free apps, Apple still has to maintain the store, pay for storage, compute and bandwidth for assets, CloudKit storage, developers, reviewers, writers for their daily stories, etc.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#270

Post by sroussey »

thrwn_frthr_awy wrote: post #219
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can use Google Chrome, and still use a non-Google search engine. I can use a Kindle, and still read DRM-Free epubs. Yes, all the major tech companies are engaged in rent seeking. But Apple is the only one that says users must either must pay rent or throw away their hardware. The App Store and its policies are not the problem. The App Store is Apple's store, just like Amazon.com is Amazon's store. But the App Store…

I haven't found a way to sign in to YouTube without being signed into Chrome.

Easily done by using Firefox. ;)
Post reply on HN