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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#241

Post by kitsunesoba »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #52

I think there needs to be some distinction between apps that are the main product (or close to it) and apps that support another product (like there is npo point to having the app by itself, you should already have gotten the product/account before downloading the app). I don't know too much about Apple's rules to know if they use that criteria, but it makes sense to me. An app to manage your Tesla makes no sense unl…

> Edit: one other thing I haven't seen whether Basecamp could just charge $141.43 per year if someone pays through Apple, so Basecamp would get $99 per year after Apple takes their 30% cut. They are allowed to offer outside subscriptions for multiplatform products, as long as those subscriptions are also available in-app. That seems like it would follow Apple's rules. People that don't care about money could sign up in-app, but most people will sign up outside the app.

There's been couple of times when I've eaten the markup that comes with paying through Apple simply because that means that I can go into my iTunes subscriptions page, hit the "stop" button on it, and it's done. No buried unsubscribe links, no "tell us why you're leaving" quiz, no disputing charges on my card. It's done and over and I don't ever have to think about it again.

If third-party payment services become the norm on the App Store, I expect a steep decline in quality of unsubscribe experiences across the board.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#242

Post by sukilot »

roenxi wrote: post #213
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can use Google Chrome, and still use a non-Google search engine. I can use a Kindle, and still read DRM-Free epubs. Yes, all the major tech companies are engaged in rent seeking. But Apple is the only one that says users must either must pay rent or throw away their hardware. The App Store and its policies are not the problem. The App Store is Apple's store, just like Amazon.com is Amazon's store. But the App Store…

These things are true; and also a significant component of Apple's value proposition. An Apple customer can be sure they will: 1) Never need to learn what a "sideload" is 2) Never be exposed to Apps that havn't been vetted by a trustworthy party (in this case Apple) Apple is taking the opportunity to milk app developers, but they've done an effective job of positioning the milking process so that it is done in the us…

iOS is the minority phone OS. It's prominent because it's not been intentionally commoditized as Android was.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#243

Post by jpttsn »

dgudkov wrote: post #76

On a side note, I don't know whether it's intentional or not, but the whole story is a great marketing campaign for HEY. Clashing with Apple made everybody learn about the app in a matter of days.

It’s obviously intentional. I’ve never heard about Hey. Then today, first they post something else and now someone defrosts this tired whine about Apple monetizing, and Hey (whatever it is) tops the list. Sigh. Good work marketers, people seem to buy it.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#244

Post by boycaught »

hendzen wrote: post #37

Apple takes a 30% cut of all IAP. Google scrapes info and displays it in widgets above links to the actual content. Google charges trademark holders AdWords ransom to protect searches for their own brands. Amazon kills OSS business models by offering managed OSS services on AWS at an unbeatable cost. Amazon picks off the best performing market place categories with Amazon Basics ‘recommended’ competitors. The list go…

"Sharecrop" is a brilliant metaphor for the entire racket.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#245

Post by donarb »

judofyr wrote: post #173
mns wrote: post #49

So nice for the people of Basecamp to be fighting the good fight for everyone and the small developers. It’s not like they were perfectly fine with the system as long as it didn’t affect them, being one of the “famous” companies out there, while independent developers and small start-ups had to deal with this for years and years. I was excited about hey before, and even though I don’t agree and don’t like the way the…

> I was excited about hey before, and even though I don’t agree and don’t like the way the App Store works, I find Hey and the superstars behind it so hypocritical and annoying now. I don't understand this sentiment. You don't like the way the App Store works and a company comes along and is willing to fight against Apple for it, and then you start disliking them? Why are they hypocritical? They are pointing out flaw…

The client doesn't use SMTP, you send your email to their server, probably using a json payload. They then send it for you over SMTP. Since the client doesn't use SMTP or POP/IMAP, you can't use Hey with a traditional email program, you must use their client.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#246

Post by SpaceRaccoon »

gruez wrote: post #206
nodamage wrote: post #190

While I agree that Apple should probably relax their rules, this list of "exceptions" is not particularly compelling. The majority of them are companion apps for physical products/memberships for which the rules around in-app purchases do not apply: Tesla, Soho House, Wells Fargo, Blue Cross / Blue Shield, WeWork. Github has a free tier and doesn't require a paying membership to use. Netflix is a digital content app…

>While I agree that Apple should probably relax their rules, this list of "exceptions" is not particularly compelling. Yeah, the first few items on the list were relatively convincing, but the convincing-ness takes a nosedive further down the list. I mean, who in their right mind would compare hey to a companion app for a car?

It's not about that. It's about the VP's explanation being disingenuous. Apple's issue isn't that the app doesn't work, despite their claim. It's that they can't collect money. They should just be honest.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#247

Post by baddox »

hyperpape wrote: post #50

There are a lot of rules lawyers in threads about Hey trying to figure out "tricks" that Basecamp or others could use to avoid the rule. That is not how this works. Apple is not a court, which (usually) plays by well stated rules, and cannot remake those rules at its discretion. No, if you find a "trick" to get around Apple's rules[0], what happens is that you get blocked when they catch you. They might update the ru…

It’s worth noting that courts and legal systems generally don’t work like that either. There are some examples of weird loopholes due to some specific wording of a law and things like that, but in general you can’t just get the best of the legal system because you “technically” did such and such. For example, you can’t scam someone by having a contract with extremely small print that they technically signed.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#248

Post by jessaustin »

zaroth wrote: post #147
dgudkov wrote: post #76

On a side note, I don't know whether it's intentional or not, but the whole story is a great marketing campaign for HEY. Clashing with Apple made everybody learn about the app in a matter of days.

I would say that if anything Hey was hoping that Apple would reject their app specifically so they could become a cause célèbre, and ride the streisand effect, They've done a great job organizing their protest campaign. I would be extremely surprised if it wasn't planned from the beginning. They are ultimately depending on Apple caving under pressure.

It isn't clear that Hey couldn't just be a PWA like many other email services?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#249

Post by zaroth »

mikenew wrote: post #230
zaroth wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans applying policy will be inconsistent. The alternative is Google where algorithms apply policy, and if they misapply a policy to you're simply screwed. I think the inverse to "Apple employed humans make a judgement call" is "Apple is no longer allowed to control their App Store". I don't like that option, because the curated App Store is a big reason why I bought an iPhone.

> Humans applying policy will be inconsistent. This is not my argument. It is not just inconsistent , it is selective . Major players are given far more leeway than small ones. There are obvious antitrust concerns, such as Spotify being required to give Apple 30% of it's revenue for it's service that competes with Apple Music[0]. There are concerns about freedom of speech and information, such as Apple removing an ap…

It’s just one data point, but on the topic of IAP and revenue share, Spotify actually pays Apple 0.075% of its total revenue. It’s a 15% fee on 680,000 out of their 100,000,000 subscribers.

The 30% fee drops to 15% after one year, and Spotify hasn’t accepted IAP in several years, so everyone paying for Spotify through Apple is paying the 15% rate.

I do think larger clients should reasonably pay lower rates, as there’s a more equal/symbiotic value proposition between the two parties.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#250

Post by sukilot »

Signez wrote: post #130
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do they need to benefit the OSS provider? The license doesn't contain anything suggesting otherwise. If authors want credit and money, the license needs to state as much. You can't publish something saying "do whatever you want" and then complain that people aren't being fair to you.

> You can't publish something saying "do whatever you want" and then complain that people aren't being fair to you. Well… you can complain. You just can't sue them. But the complaint would still be valid. You can act like a jerk and follow all the laws at the same time, it's just that the consequences for you won't be identical.

Doing exactly as you are told by the copyright holder isn't being a jerk.
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