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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#221

Post by donarb »

paulhodge wrote: post #102
parsimo2010 wrote: post #52

I think there needs to be some distinction between apps that are the main product (or close to it) and apps that support another product (like there is npo point to having the app by itself, you should already have gotten the product/account before downloading the app). I don't know too much about Apple's rules to know if they use that criteria, but it makes sense to me. An app to manage your Tesla makes no sense unl…

Tesla is definitely one of the easier cases to think about, the rest are in a grey area. But even with Tesla it's not 100% crystal clear. There might be some buyers who pick Tesla specifically because of the fancy tech features like Summon mode. It's impossible to use Summon mode without the app. So for one of those buyers, the app is an essential part of the purchase, just like HEY subscribers who expect to read ema…

> just like HEY subscribers who expect to read emails on their phone

To use the service, you have to use a mobile app (or web app), the service won't let you access via POP/IMAP.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#222

Post by tathougies »

typomatic wrote: post #135
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do they need to benefit the OSS provider? The license doesn't contain anything suggesting otherwise. If authors want credit and money, the license needs to state as much. You can't publish something saying "do whatever you want" and then complain that people aren't being fair to you.

My parents asked me for some money the other day, but I told them to pound sand--if they wanted my help they should have made me sign something before they gave me all that free room and board. Suckers!

Legally, yes, that is how it should be. even if worthy of criticism socially.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#224

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

jpttsn wrote: post #200
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can use Google Chrome, and still use a non-Google search engine. I can use a Kindle, and still read DRM-Free epubs. Yes, all the major tech companies are engaged in rent seeking. But Apple is the only one that says users must either must pay rent or throw away their hardware. The App Store and its policies are not the problem. The App Store is Apple's store, just like Amazon.com is Amazon's store. But the App Store…

I can’t relate to this. Some vendors sell me hardware, and I can bring my own software. Apple sells me more expensive hardware with the software only from their “partners”, which is “curated” and subject to a steep 30% distribution cut. Apple never tricked me into an iPhone believing I could run any random software. I know what I signed up for. Why should I feel entitled to anything else?

Why should software makers share their revenue with Apple? We don’t do it on android, Windows, macOS, linux, or anything else.

The only value added by Apple is some kind of vetting (they don’t do code review, they just check that the app meets their recommendations... and they are called RECOMMENDATIONS not REQUIEMENTS).

My app was recently rejected because i refused to sell in-app purchases and want to keep purchases only on my website.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#225

Post by sukilot »

iainmerrick wrote: post #189
MattGaiser wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is about 1/4 of net profit. They make 15 billion in revenue a year on the app store. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/07/apple-app-store-had-estimate...

I agree with everyone else here that Apple’s weird rules and the inconsistent way they’re enforced are both bad. But I don’t think the solution is as obvious as “drop the 30% cut”. How should Apple go about making money from the App Store? Paid apps are dwindling off. They do charge a flat fee per developer, but it can’t be too large or they’ll lose all the indie developers, and there just aren’t enough developers ov…

Dead simple: apple could charge a low fee hosting ($99/yr) and a higher fee for promotion.

Or Apple could drop the charade and charge users for access to apps based on whatever pricing scheme they want.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#226

Post by baddox »

Barrin92 wrote: post #107
MattGaiser wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon kills OSS business models by offering managed OSS services on AWS at an unbeatable cost. I don't get the objection to this one. Isn't the point of open source to let the best vendor win? Too many companies fail to realize that you must relentlessly wage war on cost to survive.

Open-source software has large positive externalities and if those are being captured by private entities then this will pretty much lead to a demise of open source software, or open-source software will slowly but surely being turned into software that is more and more incompatible and de-facto in-house software. This is already happening. A lot of projects that are nominally open source are more and more influenced…

> A lot of projects that are nominally open source are more and more influenced by the decisions of particular companies which erodes its purpose.

I might be ignorant here, but isn’t it the “open source companies” that are actively doing this, rather than Amazon? It seems to me that these companies that represent an open source project are realizing that you don’t get it both ways: it turns out that releasing open source software means that the source code is open, which means that you don’t get automatic business just because the name of your company is the same as the name of the open source project.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#227

Post by Hamuko »

jedieaston wrote: post #216
Hamuko wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I imagine that's going to go down real well with Cupertino.

Well, there __is__ In-App Purchase support, but it only works if your IP is in the 17.0.0.0/8 block. We put it in because we knew it was very important to Apple ;)

Ah yes, Volkswagen engineering.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#228

Post by robbrown451 »

scarface74 wrote: post #176
tomlagier wrote: post #103

I think the standard response should be to allow the in-app signup/purchase with a 42% marked up rate and a very clear line item that it is the "Apple platform tax, not charged via other distributors". Worth doing the same to Google IMO. I think the "right" amount to charge would be something like a standard credit card processor - 30 cents + 3% or so. Maybe a flat 5 or 10% for apps under a certain price. I can't ima…

Does any retailer just charge credit card fees?

That's not what he is saying. He is saying that Apple is closer to being a credit card company than a retailer. When you buy something at Walmart, Walmart gets a cut, and the credit card company gets a cut. But Walmart's cut covers the costs of what they add to the transaction, which includes shipping and warehousing the product, providing a store, staffing the store, providing heating and air conditioning to the store, etc etc. The credit card company presumably takes a much smaller cut, because the costs of what they add is much less.

With Walmart, if the store is charging a lot over their costs, the consumer can choose another store. If the credit card company is charging too much, people can pay cash (or stores can refuse that card, etc). It isn't perfect, but at least there is some degree of competition forcing the price toward the costs of providing the various services.

Ultimately the reason Apple can charge so much is because consumers have limited alternatives. Bundling, application barrier to entry, etc.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#229

Post by tempestn »

scarface74 wrote: post #193
tempestn wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they just can't have anything in the app mentioning that they're doing so. That doesn't sound very user-friendly either.

Yes because most retailers like Best Buy let manufacturers advertise that you can get products cheaper at Amazon....

Best Buy also doesn't require you to sell your software in their store if you want people to be able to use it with the laptop they bought there.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#230

Post by mikenew »

zaroth wrote: post #163
mikenew wrote: post #118

I've been a freelance iOS app developer for almost a decade. Apple has always operated this way. They have rules that are somewhat vague, and they choose when they want to enforce them and how they should be interpreted. For example: you weren't allowed to show device bezels in app store screenshots for a long time, even though all the major apps did exactly that. If you were a small time developer though you would g…

Humans applying policy will be inconsistent. The alternative is Google where algorithms apply policy, and if they misapply a policy to you're simply screwed. I think the inverse to "Apple employed humans make a judgement call" is "Apple is no longer allowed to control their App Store". I don't like that option, because the curated App Store is a big reason why I bought an iPhone.

> Humans applying policy will be inconsistent.

This is not my argument. It is not just inconsistent, it is selective. Major players are given far more leeway than small ones. There are obvious antitrust concerns, such as Spotify being required to give Apple 30% of it's revenue for it's service that competes with Apple Music[0]. There are concerns about freedom of speech and information, such as Apple removing an app that notified the user when there was a U.S. drone strike[1], or the Hong Kong protest app that China pressured them into removing. Or blocking all VPN apps in China.

And even if the argument at the end of the day is "I don't care; I like having a curated app store", why does that imply that Apple should be able to force users into only using theirs? How do you lose anything if users are allowed to install apps from other places, in some cases where there are serious human rights issues at stake?

0: https://techcrunch.com/2020/06/16/apple-pay-and-ios-app-stor...

1: https://theintercept.com/2017/03/28/after-12-rejections-appl...

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