For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business • Hacker News Board

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#581

Post by watwut » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 10:11 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #569

dgb23 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You wouldn't believe how lonely it is. In my team of 150 people, we were two black people. This is a huge part of the problem isn't it? I believe these painful interactions would be much less common if tech culture were more diverse in the first place. Women share a similar fate. Whenever I hear some of these stories I cringe. Some of them are surprising/shocking even. But this seems important. Hearing those storie…

> I believe these painful interactions would be much less common if tech culture were more diverse in the first place. I have this bias that people who get into programming as kids tend to end up as the strongest developers. My own personal effort to try and help tech diversify is support and promotion of https://www.blackgirlscode.com/ When I've worked in London I've been often surprised at how diverse QA teams are,…

> I have this bias that people who get into programming as kids tend to end up as the strongest developers.

I don't think this is true. I think that this bias is pushing away a lot of people who could be those strong developers, but think it is already too late for them.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#582

Post by churchillracist » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 10:14 AM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #522

nouveaux wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a publicly traded company is not doing well, the CEO gets canned and no one bats an eye. If one department is not doing well, it's very common to just fire a bunch of people or get rid of the department completely. The idea of "dismantling of police" does not mean we do not offer protection. It just means that the current organization "police" is not providing the services it's customers want. Years of "tweaking"…

Only someone that has never lived in other countries with serious crime problems could claim that the police here are not providing a service people want. Almost no one lives in fear of organized crime like the mafia in Italy, PCC, Comando Vermelho or Terceiro Comando in Brazil, the FARC in Colombia, the Sinaloa cartel in Mexico, etc. this list is very very long. Americans life very safe lives with relatively low cri…

> Law enforcement in the US is so effective at stopping crimes that we aren’t even aware of the value they provide.

Any concrete evidence of this? How was that conclusion derived?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#583

Post by dheera » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 10:16 AM UTC

ibudiallo wrote: post #140

I usually choose to believe in "the honest mistake". It happens, two people walk in, one of them is the CEO, you assume it is the one on the right. And then when you realize it is a mistake, you apologize. We are only human. But when it happens over and over and over, you can't help but feel frustrated. You realize that people natural instinct is to think you are the subordinate. One second your are on stage at Techc…

"well-meaning friends—mainly other Black entrepreneurs who faced similar challenges—suggested that Givens add a White man as a co-founder."

I'm not black, but I'm also not white, and I've been suggested this numerous times as well by well-meaning people after our startup not being able to fundraise for several months but some of our white-male-founded competitors had successfully raised. One friend was even joking about a "white-guy-as-a-service" to help minority startups get funded -- i.e. hire a white guy to show up to your VC pitch (or maybe pitch it for you) and your chances of funding would probably astronomically rise.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#584

Post by abustamam » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 10:19 AM UTC

Serious question: is it legal for someone not to correct an incorrect assumption? Let's say a black CEO invites his white friend to a pitch meeting as a wingman, VC says "oh great to meet you Will" assuming the white man is the CEO. And no one ever corrects him. In this way, perhaps the company would be able to access funds not normally provided to black folks. The white man would probably need to be an executive of some sort (CFO maybe) and both would need to sign whatever paperwork, and only then would it become apparent to the VC who's who.

It's ridiculous that I even need to ask this question, and doing this literally just steps aside the racism problem rather than addressing it, so it might cause more harm than good, but until racism is solved (possibly a multi generational shift) something like this might help some people out.

I feel like this should be the plot of a short film; where the black man is revealed to be the CEO and the viewer is challenged to rethink their assumptions. If I had an ounce of creativity I'd totally make it if it doesn't already exist.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#585

Post by blub » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 10:19 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #530

blub wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to have a complete picture, one also has to ask which "foo/bar dominated" cultures are inclusive if white/male dominated ones aren't. As far as I'm aware, the majority population in any country, irrespective of skin color is intolerant to various degrees toward minorities, ranging from genocide and internment camps to harassment and minor discrimination. The US is certainly not leader of the pack, but not ex…

I'm not even sure what you're saying here. The US literally imported slaves against their will from Africa and had slavery endowed into the constitution via the 3/5ths compromise. Then for literally 4 centuries they were beaten and oppressed and denied rights - literally jim crow laws were taken down only decades ago. Its literally just talking about the US here. There's no projection elsewhere - this isn't just "min…

You said "most of it is showing white people that all the things that we've tried over the past 10, 20 years are clearly not working. There's little improvement in inclusiveness in traditional white/male dominated cultures, such as the engineering teams at FAANGs for instance."

The US is an immigration society where many white people from countries which weren't involved in US slavery and now they're all painted with the same brush. It's not reasonable for someone from say Russia to be attacked for the deeds of American slave drivers hundreds of years ago. And as far as I know white immigrants were strongly discriminated against in the US in the past two centuries.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#586

Post by brenschluss » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 10:22 AM UTC

abustamam wrote: post #584

Serious question: is it legal for someone not to correct an incorrect assumption? Let's say a black CEO invites his white friend to a pitch meeting as a wingman, VC says "oh great to meet you Will" assuming the white man is the CEO. And no one ever corrects him. In this way, perhaps the company would be able to access funds not normally provided to black folks. The white man would probably need to be an executive of…

The thing is, it’s things like this that would actively hinder racism from going away - actively concealing black CEOs to VC firms would continue to have destructive consequences.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#587

Post by marliechiller » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 10:26 AM UTC

itronitron wrote: post #151

somethoughts wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - perhaps if the current big conversation was rephrased as "everyone is biased and that society is rife with systemic bias" - people would be more willing to agree that its a problem and agree that they are part of the problem and would be more willing to be involved in solving it. To be honest - everyone, no matter who they are, makes judgements and has biases.

Well, there are people that are racist. They are easy to spot because they make no apology about that. There is also systemic, or institutionalized, racism and the current state of law enforcement in the US is a prime example of that. What is interesting is how the systemic racism bleeds into everyone else's minds to form or reinforce their biases. If we can eliminate systemic/institutionalized racism then I would ex…

I implore you to listen to this recent podcast on the matter of systemic police racism in the US. The statistics simply dont back up your claim https://samharris.org/podcasts/207-can-pull-back-brink/

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#588

Post by enriquto » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 10:26 AM UTC

seppin wrote: post #512

jsharf wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christmas feels weird to me -- It feels vaguely exclusive.

I mean no offense by this, but the jewish experience in America doesn't compare to the black experience. In 99% of cases you are just another white person.

What do you mean by "black experience"? I'm not used to American culture and I have heard this expression several times. Is it only a skin-color thing or does "black" mean a different culture/tradition? I mean, if a black baby is raised by white parents on a 100% white neighborhood, will he live the black experience? Conversely, if a white baby is raised by black parents on a 100% black neighborhood, will he live the black experience? I honestly do not understand some of the anti-racist discourse (which I generally agree with), because sometimes people speak as if "black" was a distinct culture, not a race (and thus, independent from the racial issue, allowing for people of any skin color to be part or not of this culture).

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#589

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 10:29 AM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #451

greenhatglack wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of money to be made in "anti-racism" and "gender-science", especially in tax-heavy countries. No one ever dares to question it, and it's "good" causes that could use some of the workers income. I'll be contrarian and recommend Thomas Sowell's "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" instead.

> No one ever dares to question it, and it's "good" causes that could use some of the workers income. Questioning those things is basically mainstream conservative discourse. You’re questioning them right now .

Criticism doesn't only come from conservatives. To think otherwise is fundamental to those people believing these "things".

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#590

Post by notahacker » Wed, Jun 17, 2020, 10:29 AM UTC

Grustaf wrote: post #341

notahacker wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it conceivable that men and women have different average personal preferences [partly] for reasons which are linked to biology? Certainly, though nobody in this thread has suggested that can't be a factor. Is it plausible to assume that STEM fields and female participation is a case where stereotypes have very little effect? I think I'd need some pretty strong evidence for the idea stereotypes had little effect on…

Perhaps nobody said it explicitly, but when you see a difference in outcome, computer scientists are mostly men for example, and draw the conclusion that there must be discrimination and stereotyping then you indirectly say that it can’t be due to difference in preferences. Also, I would think that the person that claims discrimination would have the burden of proof.

> Perhaps nobody said it explicitly, but when you see a difference in outcome, computer scientists are mostly men for example, and draw the conclusion that there must be discrimination and stereotyping then you indirectly say that it can’t be due to difference in preferences.

Well yes, if stereotypes or discrimination play any role it at all in career selection, it rules out the possibility that the highly variable ratio of male to female computer scientists is determined solely by biology. This strikes me as a much stronger claim requiring much stronger proof than a statement to the effect that [the well-established existence of] stereotypes is amongst the driving factors in career selection; particularly given that the ratio of male to female computer scientists varies hugely by place and time in ways which would be very difficult to attribute solely to biology.