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For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

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Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#481

Post by 29athrowaway »

js2 wrote: post #195
ibudiallo wrote: post #140

I usually choose to believe in "the honest mistake". It happens, two people walk in, one of them is the CEO, you assume it is the one on the right. And then when you realize it is a mistake, you apologize. We are only human. But when it happens over and over and over, you can't help but feel frustrated. You realize that people natural instinct is to think you are the subordinate. One second your are on stage at Techc…

I am Jewish. This gives me no insight into what it is to be black in America. But it does give me some insight into what it is to be a minority in America. I have an inkling of your loneliness and you have my profound sympathy. I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. (I also never realized wha…

Most people do not know about the different Jewish peoples enough to recognize them. If you ask me to distinguish between Sephardim and Spaniards, or between an Ashkenazim and broadly European people, I will probably fail at that task.

Most people will be unsuspecting that you are Jewish, and even if they realize that you are Jewish, they will not think much about it. Perhaps they will ask you if you have any dietary restrictions and that's it.

Then, most Christians today see Judaism as another Abrahamic religion that is close to Christianity, not as a fundamentally different thing (even if in practice, it can be substantially different). Also, most people in the West are becoming increasingly secular and non-religious.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#482

Post by s1artibartfast »

darth_avocado wrote: post #187

For everyone arguing "honest mistake" or "just chance", think about the person at the receiving end. For the person making that mistake, it could be their first, but for the person at the receiving end it could be the hundredth, and that too, not without consequences. The first 3-4 times I got "randomly selected" for additional screening at the airport, I was like whatever. But years later after my probably 100th "ra…

>It is humiliating

This is a common theme in a number of stories in this thread that I don't understand.

How and why does being a victim of racism translate into shame? When I am subject to injustice, my emotional reaction has always been fury and frustration.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#483

Post by jsharf »

gfxgirl wrote: post #331
js2 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Jewish. This gives me no insight into what it is to be black in America. But it does give me some insight into what it is to be a minority in America. I have an inkling of your loneliness and you have my profound sympathy. I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. (I also never realized wha…

Where do you live? I have no idea what it's like to be Jewish but I have Jewish friends and have had Jewish bosses. I couldn't tell them apart from any other white people in the area. If they hadn't told me they were Jewish I'd never have known nor cared. I certainly didn't treat them different. At what point are we all just different? I can't meet people that are into my particular hobby. I also go to clubs and bars…

Christmas feels weird to me -- It feels vaguely exclusive.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#484

Post by read_if_gay_ »

cycomanic wrote: post #446

This is somewhat tangential to the article, but I've written about this previously. I think a big first step would be to stop talking about race for different skin colours. I'm always surprised that "race" is so commonly adopted in conversations even by campaigners against racism, as a European I always cringe. The term implies a genetic difference where there isn't any and thus contributes to systematic racism/discr…

Well, there’s at least gotta be the genetic difference that makes black people’s skin black, or Asian people’s eyes narrower. For a biologist, it probably makes sense. In common situations though I agree race is kind of a “strong word” to describe this. How do you avoid it?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#485

Post by hayez1 »

charlesu wrote: post #365
sfj wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference is hundreds of years of slavery and institutional discrimination specifically target toward blacks and all the accompanying cultural baggage. Part of that baggage is a deeply ingrained suggestion that black people are intellectually inferior but innately athletic. How can you say this with complete certainty? How could you ever be sure?

My argument is that history matters. You're welcome to argue otherwise.

This level of virtue signalling is sickening. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#486

Post by nicolas_t »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #386
js2 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Jewish. This gives me no insight into what it is to be black in America. But it does give me some insight into what it is to be a minority in America. I have an inkling of your loneliness and you have my profound sympathy. I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. (I also never realized wha…

> I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. You would be surprised at how pervasive and long-lasting majority privilege can be. I live in Southeast Asia where foreigners are a very distinct minority and they experience all kinds of hardships. Difficulties making (local) friends, difficulties dea…

Anecdotal but I've lived in different Asian countries for the last 15 years and my experience is that expats who live in compounds geared toward their nationality, never eat local food and never bothered to learn the local language tend to also be very racist. You'll hear them non-stop complaining about the locals or making sarcastic comments about them, about them having no manners, not speaking English properly (ironic considering) etc...

And often enough, they'll say things like, "you know how Chinese/Malaysians/... are" as if that statement actually made sense...

I've even heard one express profound admiration for a British family that had been involved in the Opium war and had been in HK for a long time. He admired them for staying "pure" despite staying so long in HK...

It's really anecdotal but I've rarely seen a more toxic and racist culture than the Western expat communities in countries I've lived in...

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#487

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #386
js2 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Jewish. This gives me no insight into what it is to be black in America. But it does give me some insight into what it is to be a minority in America. I have an inkling of your loneliness and you have my profound sympathy. I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. (I also never realized wha…

> I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. You would be surprised at how pervasive and long-lasting majority privilege can be. I live in Southeast Asia where foreigners are a very distinct minority and they experience all kinds of hardships. Difficulties making (local) friends, difficulties dea…

This is - sadly - the norm for many British retirees who move to Southern France, Spain, or Portugal and then complain bitterly that the stupid backward locals can't speak English properly.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#488

Post by hanspeter »

js2 wrote: post #195
ibudiallo wrote: post #140

I usually choose to believe in "the honest mistake". It happens, two people walk in, one of them is the CEO, you assume it is the one on the right. And then when you realize it is a mistake, you apologize. We are only human. But when it happens over and over and over, you can't help but feel frustrated. You realize that people natural instinct is to think you are the subordinate. One second your are on stage at Techc…

I am Jewish. This gives me no insight into what it is to be black in America. But it does give me some insight into what it is to be a minority in America. I have an inkling of your loneliness and you have my profound sympathy. I wish everyone could experience what it is to be a minority in some, any, aspect of their identity to the extent that it might provide them some empathy for others. (I also never realized wha…

> I also never realized what it must feel like to be a Christian in America until I visited Israel for the first time

I'm pretty sure white atheists in America feel equally among "my people" as Christians do (unless they're in a church or other highly religious surroundings).

It's also an odd comparison as religion is a choice, where race or ethnicity is not.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#489

Post by sfj »

titzer wrote: post #434
sfj wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever think it might be the way you dress or your demeanor? Obviously, it could be racial also, but how could you know that?

You are being downvoted because this is a soft form of victim blaming [1]. As tone and context are difficult to transmit in such a short reply, it might be a good idea to phrase things in a more empathetic way in the future. And for the record, no, no this isn't because of how they dress. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming

I disagree with the premise of “victim blaming”. If we can't look at all sides of an issue for fear of being publicly shamed for going against a narrative, we'll end up with wrong conclusions a lot of the time.

I did acknowledge racism could also play a part, but I don't see how we are supposed to be able to accept that one can read the minds of those that affront him.

I also don't give a damn about the “monkey no like, hit 'you are bad' button” people seem to care about.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#490

Post by hindsightbias »

wolco wrote: post #252
chongli wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the trouble here is the double meaning of the word racist. When some people hear the word, they think of cross-burning fanatics and mass murderers. On the other hand, the current big conversation is about how everyone is racist and that society is rife with systemic racism. That creates a catch-22 for anyone who commits a faux-pas (like mistaking the black CEO for a subordinate). Either admit to racism and ca…

The whole thing makes white people subconsciously want to avoid minorities because of the risk of mob punishment if they fail to follow new rules being created for conduct. Same thing happened after me too where many men were afraid to risk power for a real life hookup with the risks involved and have opted out for paided (where legal) risk free transactions. Which in turn has reduced the amount of relationships in g…

I can assure you that many older professional white men are conciously avoiding 1:1 interactions with women (moreso those under 40) and minorities in the workplace today.

It would be dumb to assume this doesn’t impact managers hiring decisions, conciously or unconciously. Olds can just think of it as culture fit.

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