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For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

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Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#281

Post by pdonis »

pessimizer wrote: post #156
pdonis wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we can't make progress as a society until we own that discomfort and are willing to have frank conversations about racism. I am all for having frank conversations, but I think the topic needs to be broader than "racism". It needs to be "systematic inequality of treatment". Or even better, "systematic violations of basic human rights". Then we can focus on why our society, which is supposed to be based on everybody…

Why do we have to talk about everything bad before we talk about one thing that's bad, especially when it comes to black people? Why, when the aftereffects of American slavery are being discussed, is there always somebody who says that we have to talk about Middle Eastern and African slavery first? Are the only important problems universal ones?

> Why do we have to talk about everything bad before we talk about one thing that's bad

You're misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying we have to fix everything at once. I'm saying that the "one thing that's bad" is not racism; racism is just one particular way the root problem manifests itself. The root of the problem is corruption: people in positions of public trust misusing the power they are granted to indulge their personal prejudices, whatever they are, instead of serving the public. Even if you could wave a magic wand and remove all racism from the world forever, that wouldn't fix the corruption problem; corrupt people in power would just find different excuses for violating people's rights. You have to fix the corruption.

And you won't fix corruption by focusing on one particular prejudice that the corrupt people happen to have, even if historically it has been the most common one (which, btw, I'm not sure is actually true--I think religious prejudice is at least as common historically if not more so--but I'm willing to assume it is for the sake of this discussion). The problem is not the particular prejudice the corrupt people have; the problem is that corrupt people are in power in the first place.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#282

Post by DenisM »

nouveaux wrote: post #209
nsporillo wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are the powers and material structures that contribute to the perceived racism in our society? From my limited understanding of this position, it sounds like the goal is a dismantling of police and courts which form the backbone of a civil rule of law society.

If a publicly traded company is not doing well, the CEO gets canned and no one bats an eye. If one department is not doing well, it's very common to just fire a bunch of people or get rid of the department completely. The idea of "dismantling of police" does not mean we do not offer protection. It just means that the current organization "police" is not providing the services it's customers want. Years of "tweaking"…

> the current organization "police" is not providing the services it's customers want

Is that really true? What do you think will happen if we put it up for a vote? Something like: defund police - yes/no?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#283

Post by steve_taylor »

mc32 wrote: post #224
bsder wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear lord, do people not just simply say: "Hi, I'm . And you are?" What is wrong with people? That's just basic courtesy.

When I’m not sure who is who, I’ll ask “Which one of you is so and so” as I scan the multiple of people. People should use blank slates in more situations than they do. It’s not all upside as some people take you to be slow for “not making connections,” but on the other hand you don’t make bad assumptions.

Solid advice. I always lookup people on LinkedIn before meeting them for the first time, so I usually don’t even have to ask.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#284

Post by manfredo »

free_rms wrote: post #276
manfredo wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea of "dismantling of police" does not mean we do not offer protection. Who offers the protection? Ultimately the are going to be people tasked with stopping criminal behavior, with force if said criminals resist. This isn't a dismantling of the police it's a rebranding.

Camden NJ rebuilt their police department overnight a few years back. Cancelled the union contract, fired everyone and started over. Rehired some of the same cops I believe as part of the new structure. Murders are down 50% from then, it's still not a nice town or anything but it's not the worst town in America anymore.

The police department wasn't dismantled. Camden's police department very much still exists: https://camdencountypd.org/

Restaffing he police is a vastly different measure than dismantling the police or abolishing the police, which is what many activists are pushing for.

Furthemore, the idea that this was an instance of dismantling the police to reduce police abuses doesn't seem to hold up to scrutiny [1]:

> With the city under duress, over the objection of Camden community members, local officials partnered with Christie to enact a plan to disband the city’s police force and replace it with a regional county force. The goal was to dissolve the local police union, which would allow for a cheaper force that would enable more policing, not less.

> The new force embraced broken windows policing. In the first year of the new force, summonses for disorderly conduct shot up 43 percent. Summonses for not maintaining lights or reflectors on vehicles spiked 421 percent. Summonses for tinted car windows similarly increased 381 percent. And farcically, summonses for riding a bicycle without a bell or a light rose from three to 339. It was straight out of the Giuliani handbook.

> Unsurprisingly, these moves provoked tensions between the community and the police producing a parallel rise in excessive-force complaints. These tensions were still bubbling in 2014 when a particularly harsh and disturbing arrest was caught on video with officers using violent techniques similar to the ones that killed George Floyd in Wisconsin. When pressed about the incident, Camden County Public Affairs Director Dan Keashen said that an investigation showed it to be “a good arrest.”

1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/06/16/camden-nj-...

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#285

Post by brmgb »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #57
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

I'm skeptical about Robin Diangelo, I read her book a few months ago, and it only seems to be an advertisement for her services as an anti-racist instructor. Her entire argument frames race relations within the context of the workplace which is problematic because her approach is coercive, not educational. It's more a guide on "how not to get fired for being racist" than anything. There are much better books for foun…

There was a very interesting article by Kelefa Sanneh in the New Yorker last year untitled "The fight to redefine racism" which contrasts the work done by DiAngelo with the positions taken by Ibram X. Kendi. [1] Sanneh is not convinced either.

[1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/08/19/the-fight-to-r...

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#286

Post by jwagenet »

twybriny wrote: post #220
zasz wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Systematic exclusion of black people from social programs, like the GI Bill and Social Security, and redlining, which prevented black Americans from building up wealth through homeownership the way white Americans were. "The Color of Law" is a good book on redlining. To expand on the bit about Social Security, farmworkers were excluded, since farmworkers tend to be not white. It was a nice sneaky way to be racist wit…

One of the things that confuses me quite a bit is the focus on laws that expired or have been abrogated 50-60-70-150 years ago and make it as if everything wrong with contemporary American society is caused directly by such laws and nothing else. * GI Bill: adopted in 1944, expired in 1956. * Social Security: adopted in 1935, unclear what the impacts were at the time. Unclear what the impacts are today. * Redlining:…

I believe the focus on the expired laws is based on the assertion the effects of those laws are entrenched in their communities still. In SF, historical redlining is still obvious despite some gentrification in much of the southeast and the area around Van Ness north of Market. In these areas, things like smaller (cheaper) units, poorer infrastructure, and less business development perpetuate the segregation brought about in the years of redlining. Social norms further set up expectations about who should be living in certain areas, see the recent incident over a white woman challenging a black man's home ownership in Pacific Heights (rich, white neighborhood).

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#287

Post by throwaway_jobs »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #253
lesstenseflow wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be anti-racist is to fundamentally understand the lived experiences of the Black community and how it relates to other structures of power. I thought “fundamentally understanding the lived experiences of the black community” was impossible for non-black people. What white person has achieved this goal? If none, is it impossible for a white person to be “anti-racist?” I acknowledge racism is a real issue but thin…

> I acknowledge racism is a real issue but think it’s reasonable to disagree what the best solution is. This stuff (white fragility etc) just smells way too much like “original sin” and “we are all sinners but must strive towards holiness, however unachievable” to me. I’ve always been a “treat others as you would like to be treated” person. But a lot of this anti-racist concept is appearing on all my pod casts. And n…

> I’m in Australia and I think these are largely US concepts.

Based on that statement alone I think I can accurately conclude you are not an indigenous Australian (aboriginal).

Seems they share quiet a lot in common with native Americans from stealing of their lands/displacement, mass killings, enslavement By colonists, to ongoing racism that continues to carry on today.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#288

Post by javanscala »

tomp wrote: post #35
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #21

I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO. I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic raci…

That's stereotyping, not racism. People make inferences. Like, if there's two folks, one dressed in a suit, the other in baggy clothes with thick glasses, most people (including VCs) would default to the former as the MBA CEO, and the latter as geek CTO Even though it might be the exact opposite! If you make a wrong inference, just accept the correction and move on, no hurt feelings. Similar for old vs. young.

Stereotyping is a distinction without much of a difference. I don't think anyone who has ever been slighted ever felt relieved to realize the person wasn't actually racist, or sexist, or ageist, but just "stereotyping." A few years ago, I had arrived for the final round of interviews and was mistaken for a security guard by one of the interviewers. I received an offer for that position but I declined. The company subsequently contacted me about another position, but I declined that as well. Prior to that incident, I was very excited about working there. It could've been an honest mistake, without any racist intent, but I couldn't shake my doubts about that company. Work already has the potential to create enough stressful situations without any added complications, so why gamble when you don't have to?

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#289

Post by adjkant »

dang wrote: post #233
haecceity wrote: post #219

In this thread hacker news proves the article right. Head desk.

HN reflects the society at large, so of course it proves the article right in that sense. Otherwise the article wouldn't be about the world. Any divisive topic is going to show up as divisive in any large-enough population sample. But there are at least as many comments pointing the opposite way—more, in fact, but we tend to notice the ones we dislike, and to weight them more heavily: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRang…

Would HN ever consider possibly adding location as an optional profile field? That may actually be useful in a lot of discussions and avoiding misunderstanding. I realize you can easily add this in your bio, but the explicit field will encourage more people to add it who may not yet understand the reasoning.

I'd say a tooltip could be added for context, but that seems even farther from the HN profile philosophy that exists currently.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#290

Post by cameronbrown »

mlpgx wrote: post #44
ChuckMcM wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, the discussion of your action here confirms, even more strongly, that not only is the bias real, but also it is sometimes completely opaque to people who hold that bias. Thanks for unflagging it, otherwise I would have missed it I'm sure.

The problem is that everyone has his own personal experiences. In my surroundings I've seen black women get funding where white men did not. I've seen minorities preferred in hiring. The world has changed drastically in the last five years. It is white men who feel silenced in the tech industry, by HR, the press, CEOs and activists. So the article can be true of course, but it aligns less and less with what we see in…

Post a strawpoll, see the data, otherwise nobody will believe you.
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