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For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

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Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are the powers and material structures that contribute to the perceived racism in our society? From my limited understanding of this position, it sounds like the goal is a dismantling of police and courts which form the backbone of a civil rule of law society.

> it sounds like the goal is a dismantling of police and courts which form the backbone of a civil rule of law society. It's not. The goal is to demand equal protections under the law for all, eliminate racial bias in policing, judging and sentencing, and make police themselves follow the law. Don't be misled by the "defund police" mantra. It's just a way to divert resources to community engagement programs and/or ge…

>It doesn't literally mean "shut down the police department and courts".

This doublespeak, which reminds me of the whole "Kill All Men" issue, which itself was quickly followed by a rush to say "Noo you stupid man, we don't mean kill all men, just some men", makes my skin crawl.

Let's take a quick look at the dictionary:

Defund:

verb

prevent from continuing to receive funds.

If you are failing to use the language correctly, correct yourself. Don't attempt to gaslight people and twist the meaning of established terms.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#262
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a publicly traded company is not doing well, the CEO gets canned and no one bats an eye. If one department is not doing well, it's very common to just fire a bunch of people or get rid of the department completely. The idea of "dismantling of police" does not mean we do not offer protection. It just means that the current organization "police" is not providing the services it's customers want. Years of "tweaking"…

Defunding would move those roles from public jobs to private jobs. In the end the only the rich would have protection. Probably not the best path. For an example see the private police in London. They answer to no one.

Perhaps if the funding is used on alleviating the sources of petty crime - poverty, mental illness or social disaffection, joblessness or purposelessness or apathy - the only people who would need protection would be the rich. And you can fine them out of their wealth if they transgress.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#263

So I get there are not a lot of black CEOs. Unsure what this means or the cause. As a board member I want the smartest and most talented person to run my business with low risk. Quantify that. Also, I'm confused when I hear that only 7% of tech jobs are black people, but 70% of basketball and football teams are black. Yet regardless 10% of population is black. Scientifically speaking... Given facts on IQ, we are prob…

Quoted the IQs Incorrectly. Reference:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical about Robin Diangelo, I read her book a few months ago, and it only seems to be an advertisement for her services as an anti-racist instructor. Her entire argument frames race relations within the context of the workplace which is problematic because her approach is coercive, not educational. It's more a guide on "how not to get fired for being racist" than anything. There are much better books for foun…

There's a lot of money to be made in "anti-racism" and "gender-science", especially in tax-heavy countries. No one ever dares to question it, and it's "good" causes that could use some of the workers income. I'll be contrarian and recommend Thomas Sowell's "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" instead.

On the contrary, there's not a lot of money to be made, and people constantly question it.

Would-be spoilers get educated about their own unrealized bias, racism continues to be a huge problem in this country, activists are vindicated and the world moves on.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#265

Is it possible that when put in unfamiliar situations, people will by default direct themselves toward others who are most like themselves? A hypothetical: Reverse all the races in the VC/CEO situation. Who would the black VC assume was the CEO? Repeat the experiment with whichever combination of race/sex you like.

Definitely possible, but unlikely. You’ll find that people of all minority groups make similar assumptions. There were even a few examples in this thread and the article.

That’s a part of why there is such a big push for better minority representation on all fields. VC partnerships, boards, upper management, etc. More diversity means more models of what a successful VC, CEO, Entrepreneur, etc looks like.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect and goodwill (appreciate that you actually seem to be coming to the comments to learn), it's very hard to read your comment in that way when you say things like: > Society pretending that there is massive racism when there isn't is itself structural racism I'm not sure where is best to start here because there are so many things that have to go into actually believing that, and so many combinations, but…

I will indeed find and watch those movies. I'm aware of the drug laws and the powder/crack issue, and I agree that is structural racism and is very wrong. My entire life I've been on the side of legalization of drugs. I'm watching a lot of social media, and I read as much as I can on this issue. There are methodological issues with many of the other topics/claims you mention, but I won't drag us into the weeds. I am…

When one side has suffered injustice for 400 years, people who are working to make sure the other side doesn't experience any injustice by something swinging too far and needing correction (at the cost of prolonged injustice for the already suffering side) are making a claim about who is more important. When there is injustice to be fixed, contrarians against it are effectively saying "the oppressed group's rights are less important than the oppressor's rights". You are literally slowing progress and extending injustice. When you argue the minutiae and get into the weeds, while some may be valid, the practical effect is it works to invalidate the full idea thanks to how humans work and generally are not good with nuance.

All of this ignores two central flaws in the concept of a "contrarian":

1. The "going to far" that people seem to be so concerned with has few to no examples, while history is littered with injustices not corrected far enough every step of the way. Literally the story of black people in the United States, at every step, can be summarized by "not far enough".

2. There is an implicit claim here that in order to critique and improve the prevailing narrative, you need to be taking the other side. Constructive internal work while still moving forward is perfectly capable of addressing the same things. A contrarian is always inherently on the side of privilege and the oppressor, it is a luxury of circumstance. That same luxury could do so much more good being used to push forward as part of the change, reforming from within, instead of working against.

> due to highly inflamed emotions

I think you are highly undervaluing emotions, something people "of logic/science" do far too often. If there are this many strong emotions on something, something is causing them. Highlighting and fixing that source issue is likely far more important than any possible value from contrarian approaches.

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I'm gonna be honest, I'm tired of dealing with contrarians and hopefully this short and incomplete response compared to the subject will be useful. I suspect this is a longer road I don't have time/energy for, but I truly plead that you examine this "nature" and stop being a contrarian. There are so many better ways to capture the priorities I would guess underly it without, being frank, coming off as an asshole [1] to everyone and devaluing basic humanist ideas of injustice and empathy.

I have no doubt you've experienced being treated based off of that diagnosis or criticized like this before on the internet, and likely in person. I truly am trying to lay this out in a non-confrontational way to say that it should be a sign to examine the underlying actions and approach, not to assume that the people criticizing are "arguing from emotions" or something similar. I'm at this point trying to anticipate responses, and I could be off, so take what you will from some of the extras.

Contrarianism is not a service to society: it is many things, but IMO at its core a misguided application of logic undervaluing empathy and oblivious to circumstantial privilege to be able to act as one. Again, there are many better ways to address small flaws without undermining the entire idea.

[1] I am not using this word to namecall you or contrarians generally but to underscore the reality of how people (understandably) interpret contrarianism.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#267
post #235
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's stereotyping, not racism. People make inferences. Like, if there's two folks, one dressed in a suit, the other in baggy clothes with thick glasses, most people (including VCs) would default to the former as the MBA CEO, and the latter as geek CTO Even though it might be the exact opposite! If you make a wrong inference, just accept the correction and move on, no hurt feelings. Similar for old vs. young.

This is what my concern with the focus on race is. You may commit an act that appears racist, when in fact it wasn't at all. An example: - I run into a white friend and call him Dave (another white guy I know), when his name is Mark. It happens, I apologize as I'm terrible with names. - I run into a black friend and call him Dave (another black guy I know), when his name is Mark. It happens, I apologize as I'm terrib…

The person calling you racist is racist. They are making a judgement based on Mark's race. They need to be educated.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some inferences are perfectly fine. If someone shows up in your office wearing the outfit of a cleaning company, you're fine in assuming they're a cleaning person. In some circumstances, it's not harmful to assume the person wearing a suit is the CEO, though you might not always be right. The person in the suit might also be head of sales, while baggy clothes is CEO. Generally, it's better not to assume at all unless…

Why? It is just classification by obvious statistics of how many CEOs are black. People do it naturally all the time regarding any subject, just because in this case it is race doesn't make it less reasonable to infer. Racism is not giving this CEO a fair go because he is black, not assuming logical assumptions which can be corrected.

> Why?

Because of the reason given in the article. It starts the meeting off on a bad note by making the VC aware of their bias and embarrassing them. Often they just want to get the hell out ASAP to save face, which means the black CEO doesn't get a "fair go".

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect and goodwill (appreciate that you actually seem to be coming to the comments to learn), it's very hard to read your comment in that way when you say things like: > Society pretending that there is massive racism when there isn't is itself structural racism I'm not sure where is best to start here because there are so many things that have to go into actually believing that, and so many combinations, but…

I will indeed find and watch those movies. I'm aware of the drug laws and the powder/crack issue, and I agree that is structural racism and is very wrong. My entire life I've been on the side of legalization of drugs. I'm watching a lot of social media, and I read as much as I can on this issue. There are methodological issues with many of the other topics/claims you mention, but I won't drag us into the weeds. I am…

I'd also encourage you to learn about how recently it was legal to, e.g., redline districts in cities. It became illegal in 1977, but that doesn't mean that it stopped then.

If you legally forced minorities out from owning the property that has appreciated the most, you've created a generation of inequality -- people in their 30s and 40s today are likely dealing with the setback policies like this caused. It's not some far off history for Americans, it's very much a contemporary problem.

Re: For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

#270
I used to work for a regional ILEC and everyone in the company was required to do regular ridealongs with the installers to get a better understanding of the customer base and their needs.

Me (a white guy) would frequently do ridealongs with some of our black installers and I would see this kind of treatment from customers regularly. I wasn't dressed like I was doing install work (business casual) and was clearly younger and would tell the customer in advance that I worked in X department and was just learning from the installer.

People would talk to me like the installer wasn't there. It really didn't matter what demographic either, it was pretty universal. Except for one older lady. She didn't even want me in her house if I wasn't there to physically work on her service. I liked her.

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