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Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

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Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#71

Post by Traster »

young_unixer wrote: post #22
code4tee wrote: post #18

The SAT has always generally been a test showing how well you prepared for the SAT. For top schools all viable candidates had very good scores so it wasn’t much use. It was just one of those things everyone did because everyone did it. With more opting out that momentum goes away and increasingly now people are asking “so why did we use this test again?” Likely won’t be long until the SAT just disappears entirely and…

> The SAT has always generally been a test showing how well you prepared for the SAT. I don't know about the SAT specifically, but in my country we also have standardized admission tests and, from my appreciation, it's good at measuring 2 things: 1. General Intelligence. 2. How well you prepared for the test. Sure, (2) may be an undesirable artifact but I think that intelligence is a good way --if not the best-- to s…

2 isn't an undesirable artifact. You want highly motivated hard working people applying to your university course. People have this idea of some genius slacker but you know what's better than a genius slacker? A genius who works hard. And frankly, most people aren't geniuses anyway.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#72

Post by memexy »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #67
memexy wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very useful. Do you have any favorite links/resources?

No, I'm not a student.

Well... we're all ultimately students, just a question of which subjects and disciplines.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#73

Post by anonuser123456 »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #58
gautamcgoel wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a PhD student at Caltech. There's also a push to eliminate the GRE as a requirement for graduate admissions, in much the same way as some people want to eliminate the SAT as a requirement for undergraduate admissions. In my opinion both proposals are well-intentioned but ultimately bad ideas.

Some people self study and pass GRE subject tests without having done the relevant undergraduate degree. Especially in fields such as mathematics and physics where testing results are easily quantified, this is a gradually growing long-term threat to the credentialing power of universities. If an independent company comes along that can reliably get students to equivalent GRE subject test scores in a hard science mos…

What motivation does CalTech have to retain ownership of credentialing powers? I can't imagine the administration there caring about anything less.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#75

Post by jbay808 »

memexy wrote: post #57
jbay808 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will they? They might adjust their admission picks until e.g. aggregate ethnic/racial admission stats look the same as before, but at the same time picking more of the rich, well-connected black/other minority kids and fewer of the poor but hardworking ones.

How many brilliant poor kids do they choose now?

Some? I think the assumption implicit in this thread of the conversation is that scoring well on the SATs is a way for brilliant poor kids to compete with rich well-connected kids.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#76

Post by jimbob45 »

filereaper wrote: post #31

I highly recommend watching the video by Scott Galloway on The College Implosion. [1] "Colleges have become luxury brands and are adopting a strategy of artificial scarcity to create irrational margins" There's a large movement right now where many are saying the large tuition fees for Zoom lectures aren't worth it. Colleges sell themselves for the experience and are a luxury lifestyle brand almost, but with covid th…

I hate the hand-waviness behind this argument. Yes, much of college is not worth it anymore and can be attained online. Still, these HN threads always come to the same conclusion that there remain elements of the college experience that can only be found on campus.

Not attacking you personally btw. You seem to see the nuance required of the conversation.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#77

Post by WalterBright »

gautamcgoel wrote: post #24
SamReidHughes wrote: post #13

Caltech is doing this -- actually, they're going test blind -- for two years. I think that's pretty notable, since I trust them to be interested in only admitting students that can pass their physics classes.

I'm a PhD student at Caltech. There's also a push to eliminate the GRE as a requirement for graduate admissions, in much the same way as some people want to eliminate the SAT as a requirement for undergraduate admissions. In my opinion both proposals are well-intentioned but ultimately bad ideas.

I went to Caltech in the 70's. Caltech did a pretty good job of only admitting people who could hack the program. But they did make mistakes here and there, and those would suffer the humiliation of flunking out. This did nobody any good.

BTW, I found out years later that they took a chance on admitting me, and I very nearly flunked out my freshman year before I found my "sea legs". I was rejected by MIT, Harvard, and Stanford.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#78

Post by WalterBright »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #58
gautamcgoel wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a PhD student at Caltech. There's also a push to eliminate the GRE as a requirement for graduate admissions, in much the same way as some people want to eliminate the SAT as a requirement for undergraduate admissions. In my opinion both proposals are well-intentioned but ultimately bad ideas.

Some people self study and pass GRE subject tests without having done the relevant undergraduate degree. Especially in fields such as mathematics and physics where testing results are easily quantified, this is a gradually growing long-term threat to the credentialing power of universities. If an independent company comes along that can reliably get students to equivalent GRE subject test scores in a hard science mos…

I was rather intimidated by the GREs, but when taking the test I was shocked at how easy it was. None of it went beyond sophomore level, if even that.

I concluded that the only purpose of the GRE was to filter out the complete frauds.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#79

Post by s1artibartfast »

anonuser123456 wrote: post #73
AlchemistCamp wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people self study and pass GRE subject tests without having done the relevant undergraduate degree. Especially in fields such as mathematics and physics where testing results are easily quantified, this is a gradually growing long-term threat to the credentialing power of universities. If an independent company comes along that can reliably get students to equivalent GRE subject test scores in a hard science mos…

What motivation does CalTech have to retain ownership of credentialing powers? I can't imagine the administration there caring about anything less.

Money? Undergraduate attendance is typically a vastly larger revenue stream.

Re: Harvard University Won’t Require SAT, ACT for Admissions Next Year

#80

Post by cyberdrunk »

shreygineer wrote: post #47
wespiser_2018 wrote: post #38

This makes sense: Harvard has a huge issue with discrimination against Asian Americans, who are not represented according to their ACT/SAT score distribution. If Harvard could waive away these scores, they can continue their admissions policy that favor students from wealthy families who pay full price, and are likely to be institutional givers after graduation by focusing on admission factors that are much less acco…

As an Asian American myself, I don't understand this notion of discrimination against Asian Americans by Ivy League schools. Per Harvards Class of 2023 Admissions data [1], Asian Americans makeup 25.3% of the admitted class. They're the largest minority group admitted. [1] https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics

In a system based on merit, they would get more placements.
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