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After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

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741–750 of 841 posts

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's obviously grey area, but a lot of comments in this thread come really close to the definition of complacency

You should know that the most notable politicians to use that phrase were Vladimir Lenin, Benito Mussolini, and George W Bush. It is the hallmark of extremism.

> You should know that the most notable politicians to use that phrase were Vladimir Lenin, Benito Mussolini, and George W Bush.

I dunno, I think Cicero is at least as notable as Bush, if not Mussolini or Lenin. Orwell—who used it to describe a fundamental fact of the nature of war, always and everywhere—wasn’t a politician, but certainly a notable figure. The uses of perhaps the greatest significance are in the Bible, both in Joshua and by Christ in the Gospels.

But perhaps the most relevant to the immediate situation are figures like:

Archbishop Desmond Tutu, “If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor”

Elie Wiesel: “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented,”

John Stuart Mill, “Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing”.

Or the form written as confessiom from the side complicit by complacency, Rev. Martin Niemöller:

---

First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me

---

> It is the hallmark of extremism.

The recognition that inaction is a choice with consequences, and that complacency is acquiescence is very much not limited to those espousing extremism.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#742
post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's to explain? All the people who chose not to do this, because it didn't seem like a safe enough business model?

Right, they choose to do it on top of a Google-run service they don’t pay for. According to you, this shouldn’t be happening.

No, read it again. According to me, many people are unwilling to build a life on sand, it weighs negatively in their choices. The fact that some are observed to take the gamble proves nothing. (And the fact that some of those got nasty surprises of being de-monetized proves that they should have been concerned.)

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was using the term "illegal" as an adjective, not a noun, to describe their immigration status, a simple way to say that they are here illegally.

“Undocumented” is the more correct adjective. “Out of status” if you want 3 words to do the job of 1.

I know that “undocumented” is preferred by people sympathetic to illegal immigrants, but is it actually more correct?

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to expect that a _federal agency_ will be denied service from a private entity, especially for essentially political reasons, is lunacy. Um, think you've got this backwards. Private entities shouldn't have to take on anyone they don't want as customers (for whatever reason - do you have to justify who you do or don't want in your livingroom?), but publicly-funded institutions shouldn't be able to deny service o…

That is true – businesses are legally allowed to refuse service to anyone (apart from protected classes like race or political affiliation, but that probably does not apply here). It's an important right, and probably many businesses would be more profitable and happy if they exercised that right more often. It's still politically dangerous, and would earn a company a lot of enemies and mistrust (as well as some alli…

[deleted]

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were the case, then de facto segregation wouldn't be increasing even to this day. Without the government enforcing segregation, people started separating themselves physically. Schools for instance are more segregated than they were in 1975. Segregation wasn't a case of the government pushing these ideas on to unwilling populace.

This could actually be because of forced busing of whites to black schools. Many parents want to send their kid to the best school and were willing to move to avoid their kids going to worse schools. White parents were more likely to be able to afford to move which resulted in them leaving. Minorities tended to be poorer and could not leave and stayed in the areas with the worse schools. Kids who go to worse schools…

The trend has gotten worse even after forced busing wasn't a thing anymore.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone can still get groceries without physically going into the store, is it still discrimination?

I've had to deal with such issues a little. Whether it's the kind of discrimination the store is obliged to deal with is going to come down to principles of reasonable accomodation. So, say you had an extremely boutique store up some rickety stairs, where the way it's used is you go up the stairs and meet the chef who will take your order for a wedding cake and you can collect the cake next week. I would expect, in t…

> where the only obstacle is that the store does not replace one door type with another that a wheelchair user can enter, and the store can reasonably afford the cost,

It wouldn't be the only obstacle. Let's take wheelchair-accessible parking spots for example. We have to convince the store that sacrificing regular-sized parking spots (and the ones closest to the store, at that) in order to make room for a smaller number of larger parking spots that are reserved for 2% of their customers (and not exactly the most profitable 2%, either) is a reasonable accommodation.

Bear in mind that some of those spots we're asking them to convert might already be reserved for the store manager, some senior employees, and the employee-of-the-month as perks, rather than for customers. You will have a lot of convincing to do, and should expect significant pushback from the local chamber of commerce.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kills the whole purpose of automation. Automation is preferable because it is supposed to be cheaper while providing equal benefits as traditional production of goods and services. My personal choice here would be a tax for practices that are provably automatable but not yet automated. The result is the same, we are funding a UBI but now businesses are also incentivized for innovation to escape from the tax. I'm…

> My personal choice here would be a tax for practices that are provably automatable but not yet automated. If a practice is provably automatable, then it's already automated. That's what proof looks like.

Existence of a proof doesn't mean application of it is widespread.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kills the whole purpose of automation. Automation is preferable because it is supposed to be cheaper while providing equal benefits as traditional production of goods and services. My personal choice here would be a tax for practices that are provably automatable but not yet automated. The result is the same, we are funding a UBI but now businesses are also incentivized for innovation to escape from the tax. I'm…

> My personal choice here would be a tax for practices that are provably automatable but not yet automated. If a practice is provably automatable, then it's already automated. That's what proof looks like.

Well, some companies seem to end up with weird incentives where it makes sense to be less productive. For example, a dev might create some script that eliminates some data processing roles. The CEO might decide to not implement it solely to save a few jobs. If there’s a tax for not automating then the organization will immediately respond in a more economically rational way.

Re: After GitHub CEO backs Black Lives Matter, workers demand an end to ICE contract

#750
post #381
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about anti-discrimnation laws? Where do you stand on the issue with the baker refusing to bake a cake for the gay couple?

Simple: anti-discrimination laws only apply if you're being discriminated on the basis of being in a protected class. being gay is a protected class. Being ICE isn't.

In some jurisdictions being gay is a protected class, in others it is not. Even the USSC ruling today doesn’t create a new protected class; it simply (and correctly) determines that discrimination based on gender nonconformity (whether sexual orientation, gender identity, or other) is discrimination based on sex, which is already a protected class.
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