Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone • Hacker News Board

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#911

Post by zaarn » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 5:17 PM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #849

zaarn wrote: post #801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I pointed out upthread, tear it down and rebuild it.

I guess the point I'm dancing around is that words have power, and rebuilding a force called police is still a half measure. Don't just rebuild, but instead create a new force with a new name as part of gaining new semantics. People bring baggage with them when you use the same words.

I don't think that is true, plenty of police forces around the world call themselves police without feeling the innate urge to shoot at innocent protesters with lethal force.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#912

Post by malandrew » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 5:22 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #354

throwaway894345 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but I’m pretty sure it’s illegal to use eminent domain to confiscate the homes of citizens based on their race. The law doesn’t make provisions for unpopular races as far as I know.

> IANAL but I’m pretty sure it’s illegal to use eminent domain to confiscate the homes of citizens based on their race Good thing I never suggested that. Gentrification has a racial dimension because race correlates with economics, but it simply is the rich displacing the poor in a particular region; if you take housing units by eminent domain and establish a process for renting them out as public housing that doesn'…

> establish a process for renting them out as public housing

and the process for renting them as public housing will be fairer how? You're just switching out one filtering system (price) for another based on arbitrary rules proposed by petty bureaucrats and politicians. At the end of the day you're still discriminating. The only difference that in your system, you're hoping that you or someone with your sensibilities has the power to do the discriminating.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#913

Post by dmoy » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 8:03 PM UTC

numpad0 wrote: post #896

tekknik wrote: post #890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got this backwards, an M4 is actually a knock off of the AR-15. That is to say the AR-15 came before both the M16 and the M4 and both of those guns were built from the AR-15.

I mean that pictured gun is an M4gery isn’t it

Sure? If you mean it's probably a 16" with a carbine-length gas system, tube-like handguard that probably isn't floated, and a carbine stock, that looks about right.

It's kind of an ill-defined term, and doesn't really mean that it was purchased whole. It could easily be a stripped lower + lpk + complete upper, or complete lower + complete upper. Either of those sidesteps the 10 day waiting period, and it's about the same price - you can get a lower+lpk with buffer tube and halfway-decent buttstock for something like $120, or you can buy a complete lower for about that same price.

Assuming you just buy a stripped lower and not an 80% lower, assembling requires minimal tooling - a couple roll pin punches, a hammer, some pliers, a hex wrench, and maybe another wrench. A vise grip makes it easier but isn't strictly speaking required. Takes like an hour or two even if you have no idea wtf you're doing.

That said, I agree it's probably more likely they bought it whole, or bought a lower+upper and just slapped it together (which takes 5 seconds and zero tools).

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#914

Post by andrewzah » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 8:19 PM UTC

AnHonestComment wrote: post #907

andrewzah wrote: post #902

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve been reviewing the footage from Seattle — and protestors started every instance of violence by first getting forceful with the cops. That's funny, because the majority of the clips I've seen have unprovoked or inappropriate responses from the police. Seattle alone [0] has had numerous incidents. It's trivially easy to see this, to the point that one would have to ignore many incidents to say "every instance" w…

Can you elaborate on which of those clips you find that the police initiated or acted inappropriately? The first one is what we should want to happen — a misplaced knee was moved by a colleague. There’s no context to decide if police inappropriately started an altercation. There’s no extended period of a knee on someone’s neck. The second is police responding to someone on the ground fighting them and physically resi…

So because not every clip has the full context wrapped up in a pretty bow, they're impossible to evaluate? To meet your level of standards, every single person would have to be recording video 24/7 and attach a written summary to every video. People don't really record things until a situation arises, so while we should take caution to understand the preceding events, we can evaluate things with the current information presented.

Blindly chanting "there's no context" to every single video is problematic at best; it's a dog-whistle for cop apologists at worst.

We have videos of cops shooting projectiles at people on their own private property; cops approaching people who are walking away and just shoving them or beating them up for no reason; cops driving vehicles (or horses) into crowds or towards pedestrians; et cetera. One needs to be adamantly ignorant in order to believe that every single instance has been instigated by protestors.

Saying "protestors started every instance of violence" and now going "wait, we need the context to judge these videos" makes me believe you have zero intent of approaching this from a viewpoint other than one that vilifies protestors and glorifies cops.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#915

Post by jessaustin » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 8:55 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #877

jatone wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what other singular event has killed 100k people in the US in less than 6 months outside of a couple wars? not as bad as everyone was predicting...... are you fucking kidding me? and this number is after the major cities impacted literally fucking shut themselves down to help prevent the spread.

100k is a rough estimate. It might be higher, but will most likely be lower. The data will need to be pruned and carefully looked at. There are incentives for people to misclassify deaths at COVID19[0]. It will likely not get much higher than 100k as exponential growth doesn't continue indefinitely[1]. It's practically gone in Italy right now. 600k die every year from hearth disease. 700k died globally from mosquito…

100k is a rough estimate. It might be higher, but will most likely be lower.

How is this going to happen? We haven't controlled the disease even by shutting lots of stuff down, and the political will does not exist to keep that stuff shut down. After everything reopens the disease will certainly kill more people. There won't be an effective vaccine until a great deal more research is done; that's a decade away at least. Effective treatments such as antibodies will not be scalable for many months. We'll be lucky if we hold USA covid deaths this year to 200k.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#916

Post by colinmhayes » Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 9:06 PM UTC

ColanR wrote: post #672

colinmhayes wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LessWrong and niche subreddits depending on the political views you hope to find.

> depending on the political views you hope to find It seems like the really good discussion places wouldn't have to carry this caveat. It's too bad those are even harder to find.

I was more thinking about how all the right leaning subs have been co-opted by the alt-right gamer types and trolls. The far left subs aren't much better, but there are plenty of open minded moderate subs. I find neoliberal to be a great place to discuss center-left policy.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#917

Post by hoten » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 12:50 AM UTC

rantwasp wrote: post #838

hoten wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that is a result of CHAZ.

how do you know / make that claim? i guess i might be in a minority but the large scale protests led to these outcomes. most politicians don’t give a flying forest for an isolated protest that happens all the way across the country. now if this happens in your backyard you pay attention. so i would say that the protests in Seattle and the emergence of CHAZ did contribute to some of the outcomes (present and future on…

I'm confused at your comment. These two sentences seem directly contradictory:

> i guess i might be in a minority but the large scale protests led to these outcomes.

> most politicians don’t give a flying forest for an isolated protest that happens all the way across the country. now if this happens in your backyard you pay attention.

Could you clear that up?

___

I'm not saying protests in other cities didn't contribute to governments in different cities taking action. I do think the nation-wide aspect of the protests helped move things along in Minneapolis/Lousiville/etc. I do think it's mostly indirect, though: I think protests across the country _indirectly_ increased the confidence and voices of protestors in other cities.

You seem to be conflating CHAZ–a very unique form of protest–with all protests. I think without CHAZ, the outcomes in the cities mentioned above would be the same.

Can you cite anyone in a position of power, or even a prominent voice leading the protests, in KY, MN, etc. that directly cite CHAZ?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#918

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 2:58 AM UTC

andrewzah wrote: post #914

AnHonestComment wrote: post #907

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on which of those clips you find that the police initiated or acted inappropriately? The first one is what we should want to happen — a misplaced knee was moved by a colleague. There’s no context to decide if police inappropriately started an altercation. There’s no extended period of a knee on someone’s neck. The second is police responding to someone on the ground fighting them and physically resi…

So because not every clip has the full context wrapped up in a pretty bow, they're impossible to evaluate? To meet your level of standards, every single person would have to be recording video 24/7 and attach a written summary to every video. People don't really record things until a situation arises, so while we should take caution to understand the preceding events, we can evaluate things with the current informati…

[deleted]

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#919

Post by craftinator » Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 1:51 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #553

craftinator wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this, having had quite of bit of firearms experience both semi and auto, the real limiting factors are, as mentioned, controllability and ammo. With a 30 round mag and a cyclic rate of 700 rounds per minute (AR-15 mods run 700-1000 RPM), you get a little over 2 seconds of trigger time. That assumes you don't experience a jam, which is very likely with an AR-15 variant modified for automatic fire, and becaus…

> I'd be wayyyyy less concerned than if they were using semi automatic. In general, yes. To play devil's advocate though, accuracy/controllability is not really needed if your goal is just to spray as much lead as possible into a densely crowded area from, say, a hotel room above. Such domestic terrorist events are extremely rare, but I would guess in these specific cases where the goal is to spray as many bullets pe…

Late reply, sorry. I'd say that in the domestic terrorism situation you describe, even someone completely untrained would still be more deadly taking aimed shots than with full auto or auto bursts. With auto, most of those 30 rounds would impact the ground unless they were shooting into a really, really dense mass of people, and even then you'd have many shots that would be grazing or non lethal hits. And by the time the second magazine went in, people would be clearing out fast.

With a large magazine it would be a different story though, you are right about that. This is why I think that it's good to have fully auto by design weapons be illegal (think the SAW, or the M240), along with magazines above 30 rounds.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#920

Post by cma » Fri, Jun 19, 2020, 1:00 AM UTC

andrewzah wrote: post #904

cma wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By Limbaugh?

By anyone. Any "news" network that's on TV is rubbish. It's not like there's a certification or anything. Anyone who mocks Fox news and then turns around and watches cnn, msnbc, etc, is a fool.

Rush Limbaugh coined that term in 1993 in his book (or perhaps earlier), it wasn't a 2016 invention.