Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

capitolhillautonomous.zone

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 920 posts

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#351

Post by jasonvorhe »

thu2111 wrote: post #348
gabesk wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also about that far away and walked through there last night. It felt more like a summer street fair festival. I also took a few pictures. https://photos.app.goo.gl/UN8RpwWS5TYAY5Nn7

But then there's also this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaQyClgU4AEJnWf?format=jpg&name=... https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EaQyCmMUEAEn_1o?format=jpg&name=... I've not before seen a summer street festival where armed militias wearing bulletproof vests patrol the streets.

How many summer festivals have you been to where to people in charge are at risk of being attacked by armed white supremacists?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#352

Post by dragonwriter »

remarkEon wrote: post #162
dragonwriter wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Cut funding for police departments”, that is shown in that poll isn't what the dismantle/abolish is about (it's not even a fair portrayal what “defund” is centrally about, which is shifting funding from PDs to alternative services .) And that poll is from near the beginning of the recent protests. More recent polling shows much higher support for both “defund” and “dismantle” than what that poll found for it's lopsi…

Yes, there exists nuance to the "defund the police" stance (though a lot less on the whole "abolish" the police position). My point is that many people have essentially been gaslit into thinking this has widespread support. It does not, regardless of whatever nuance exists. From your article: >For example, 39% of respondents supported proposals “to completely dismantle police departments and give more financial suppo…

> So, only 39% of respondents support "dismantling" (notice the specific word choice here) and essentially creating, out of thin air I guess, another organization that would obviously have a license to engage in violence if their charter includes dealing with domestic violence.

“Dismantle” and “abolish” are about equally popular in the movement for those that support the position that goes beyond “defund” in organizational change.

And 39% is widespread, though obviously not majority, support (and “defund” has 76%—a large majority—support in the pool, which I notice you ignore completely.) And nothing in the quote (or the movement) suggests that whatever armed law enforcement functions were retained would be concentrated in a single new organization created ex nihilo. While, again, advocates are mostly calling for a community process to rethink a design new service delivery and public safety systems rather than selling an already completed redesign that just needs legislative blessing, one framework concept I've seen mentioned more than once is redistributing domain-specific law-enforcement functions within service agencies consistent with the agencies’ domain, broadly the same much state and federal law enforcement functionality is rather than being concentrated in a single paramilitary force of general remit.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#353

Post by cancerSpreads »

woodruffw wrote: post #140
solidasparagus wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a music festival campground Which is fun for a while until people start dying or fighting like they always do and suddenly you need a group of people who spend their time dealing with it. Anarchic utopias do not stay utopic for all that long.

> Anarchic utopias do not stay utopic for all that long. At least one counterexample to this is Exarcheia[1] in Athens, which has been relatively unpoliced for the last 50 years. I was there about a year ago and was struck by how both peaceful and lively it was. Nowhere in Athens felt nearly as alive. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exarcheia

Unpoliced and relatively unpoliced are drastically different.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#354

Post by dragonwriter »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #188
dragonwriter wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Degentrification could trivially be achieved by eminent domain, condemning existing residential property for public housing for which eligibility would be governed on rules which are incompatible with gentrification. It might be expensive, even prohibitively so, to do on a broad scale, but in terms of legal authority it's well within the scope of powers that local governments usually have. Note that rent control, eve…

IANAL but I’m pretty sure it’s illegal to use eminent domain to confiscate the homes of citizens based on their race. The law doesn’t make provisions for unpopular races as far as I know.

> IANAL but I’m pretty sure it’s illegal to use eminent domain to confiscate the homes of citizens based on their race

Good thing I never suggested that. Gentrification has a racial dimension because race correlates with economics, but it simply is the rich displacing the poor in a particular region; if you take housing units by eminent domain and establish a process for renting them out as public housing that doesn't distribute them to the highest bidder, you prevent gentrification. You neither have to acquire nor distribute based on race.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#355

Post by panosfilianos »

arcticbull wrote: post #237
woodruffw wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anarchic utopias do not stay utopic for all that long. At least one counterexample to this is Exarcheia[1] in Athens, which has been relatively unpoliced for the last 50 years. I was there about a year ago and was struck by how both peaceful and lively it was. Nowhere in Athens felt nearly as alive. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exarcheia

Freetown Christiania in Copenhagen is an anarchist commune too. [1] The police have largely left it to its own devices since 1971. They show up from time to time as the political whims change. Their green light district is something to behold, with the street vendors and their bricks of hash. I've been a few times, quite lovely, would recommend. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania

I have first hand experience from both Exarcheia and FC. I grew up in central Athens until 2 years ago where I moved to Copenhagen. I have been at both regions a ton of times and have very close friends that live in the regions.

Exarcheia has a very long history of participation in the movement and a lot of anarchistic spaces but the organization is not at all as cohesive as portrayed here. Police presence has varied through the years. There is a police department very close to the heart of the region (the square) and 2 years you would have clashes between the police and anarchist groups ~bi-weekly. Due to the absence of police there is and was a problem of drug trafficking (something that a lot of comrades fight against). Now there is a way stronger police presence.

FC had a stronger system in place, because of circumstance, politics and culture. Regardless, police has swept through FC quite a few of times, on charges involving drugs as well. I have not been part of any organizational elements in FC, but my ignorance here should not be considered as a guide.

Nevertheless, my point here is that both communities do not have combative capabilities against the organized force of police.

If you'd like me to elaborate more on a specific subject regarding my experience, especially about Exercheia, please let me know.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#356

Post by tjr225 »

remarkEon wrote: post #137
tjr225 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically this would make the area much more affordable. I’m all for it :)

Uhh when was the last time you were in Detroit?

I actually live just a couple of hours west of Detroit. In any case, Detroit isn't surrounded by mountains and ocean in the same way that Seattle is- sort of a weird comparison. A cheaper Seattle would still have those things near by.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#357

Post by ftio »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #257
dag11 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The media coverage of it is WILD Yep. I live three blocks south of CHAZ and it's so overblown. Conservative family from the east-coast have told me they're very worried for me, and I check fox news and see images from "Seattle" of parking lots of cars on fire. Those images were from Minneapolis last month, not even from Seattle. As another nearby commenter said, last week when the police were here gassing us, throw…

On the right, I am seeing: - It's called Antifastan - Warlord Raz is prone to violent outbursts, and is an AirBnb Superhost. - There are open carries with automatic rifles. They get the most respect. - Laughing out loud at an attempt to create a vegetable garden. Didn't appear promising. - Laughing harder at a cry for 'please send vegan meats and soy products, the homeless took all the food!' My thinking is, the trut…

To see this in action, check out this crappy prototype I built: https://spin.report/

Makes it easy to see how different outlets are doing their best to earn those ad dollars with different strategies (horizontal rows) and to see how their strategies are evolving over time (columns).

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#358

Post by [deleted] »

alasdair_ wrote: post #340
downerending wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure anyone is "convinced", but yes, there are stories of uncertain believeability suggesting that there are people with guns at the "border" demanding ID to enter. Sounds dubious. Also, that the Antifas are asking for protection money from businesses within the zone. Again, dubious. But, if either of those things are happening, I'm pretty okay with putting an end to them, by whatever means necessary. Threatening…

Notice how none of these stories are ever “this happened to me” from someone credible who provably lives there? It’s always “a friend said...”

[deleted]

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#359

Post by kortex »

redisman wrote: post #317
gonational wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unchecked power is bad Are you pro individual gun ownership? The second amendment exists in the US Constitution, first and foremost to balance the power between a populous and would-be tyrants.

Maybe a 100 years ago. The government has invested high tens to low hundreds of trillions of our dollars into the military at this point. Guerrilla warfare on peoples own land is almost impossible to snuff out but the people also can't possibly "win".

The purpose of an armed populace isn't to "win" tactically, it's to win strategically and psychologically. It's basically like a poison pill clause, you want to make totalitarian takeover so unpallatable that every victory is a pyrrhic one. You want to force the occupiers to have to choose between killing your own countrymen or defecting, setting up more of a resistance. All the while, you shine light on all the atrocities.

With a sparsely-armed populace, it's easy for the occupying force to roll through without much conflict or challenging decisions.

Winning occurs through attrition of the occupiers, which, unlike Vietnam, can't just "back out".

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#360

Post by zaarn »

deathgrips wrote: post #293
liability wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not have the government hire people to do that for me? Call it "socialized defense" or something.

American police departments have no duty to protect you. They are law enforcement officers who choose at their own discretion to arrive at your home seven minutes after you dial 911.

Make it their duty to protect you.
Post reply on HN