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Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#131

Post by pera »

kixiQu wrote: post #97
haram_masala wrote: post #92

I don't live there, but there's something about all this that make it seem like a wildly overblown media event - that the actual thing itself is much more pedestrian and much less sensational than reports would have us believe.

I live there. This is correct in that the CHAZ itself has its biggest impacts through a. having free snacks and b. not allowing through traffic, but it really hasn't been stated enough how awful it had been when the police were there. Helicopters all night and if you were unlucky to be close enough: https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2020/06/04/43840246/seattle...

This is something that cannot be overstated: the helicopters and planes, the loud bombs and the gassing, were really awful. I don't have problems sleeping but last week was really hard...

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#132

Post by throwaway122378 »

JPKab wrote: post #101
conroy wrote: post #84

A friend lives in Seattle and texted me today about his visit last night: > I was there last night and it's such a cool pseudo utopian place > The media coverage of it is WILD > People on the internet are convinced it's protected by armed guards and people are dying of hunger and instead its...like a music festival campground > There are speakers, musicians, art walls. I took a group pic for a bunch of black guys las…

"they were so proud of what was built" Curious, since I can't trust news media to not sensationalize this: What has been built, according to your friend? Have they set up infrastructure of some sort for housing people? Kitchens, latrines, etc?

Stole not built

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#134

Post by programmarchy »

gen220 wrote: post #95
Taikonerd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Seattle Police are thinking, "these are a bunch of kids who want to play-act La Revolución. If we just ignore them for a week, they'll get bored or disillusioned and go home." So the police aren't going to storm the barricades -- they figure they won't have to.

This basically happens in Berlin every year on the May Day celebrations/marches. The police let the anarchists do whatever they want, within certain constraints (no injuring people, constrained to certain neighborhoods), and the anarchists only do it on that day of the year. Sometimes there are conflicts between the police and the rioters, but it never escalates to huge conflicts any more. It’s a display of mutual re…

This is a fitting explanation, and I think developing these kinds of rituals further will help heal some of the divides in this country.

Your last paragraph reminded me of Eric Gans’ “Originary Hypothesis” [1]:

> Gans hypothesizes that language originates in "an aborted gesture of appropriation," which signifies the desired object as sacred and which memorializes the birth of language, serving as the basis for rituals which recreate the originary event symbolically. The originary sign serves to defer the mimetic violence threatening the group, hence Gans's capsule definition of culture as "the deferral of violence through representation."

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Gans#The_Originary_Hypo...

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#135

Post by dclowd9901 »

shadowgovt wrote: post #117
jerf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not even remotely "by all accounts". There are plenty of accounts that isn't "cool and unique" but is just another place ruled by violent thugs: https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/h077uv/raz_simone_... I'm not passing judgment yet since the days are young and the political bias on the ground is thick in both directions. But it is definitely not "by all accounts". But my personal bias on the table is that y…

The "new police" are constrained by a different system than the officers. Namely, they weren't police-trained. Whether that's going to be a positive or a negative remains to be seen, but that's one of the key notions in these protests.

I'm dubious that the old police were "police-trained."

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#136

Post by solidasparagus »

Kye wrote: post #130
solidasparagus wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I hope it works. But history says it's going to go poorly and they're going to need to end up with something resembling a police force, even if they don't call it that.

I don't know how your interactions with police have gone, but I've never had them show up when I called, and most accounts I hear are that they don't do anything at best when they do. At worst, they kill someone. Most of what they do is not stuff they should be doing. There's some niche a well-trained police force can fill, but it's a lot smaller than what the poorly-trained forces do now. Almost no one is actually c…

The first line of the CHAZ demands:

> The Seattle Police Department and attached court system are beyond reform. We do not request reform, we demand abolition. We demand that the Seattle Council and the Mayor defund and abolish the Seattle Police Department and the attached Criminal Justice Apparatus. This means 100% of funding, including existing pensions for Seattle Police

Also, I would look at the Baltimore police/crime post-Freddie Grey to see how diminished police action leads to much increased crime. What the BPD did was horrifying but so was the rise in crime once they became less active.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#138

Post by [deleted] »

blaser-waffle wrote: post #8

I believe Denmark had something like this for a while. It started with squatters taking over an area kind of like this. Turned into a serious drug venue and eventually fell apart. Sounds like it sort of restarted, albeit with regular Danish law enforcement and other city resources. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freetown_Christiania

[deleted]

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#139

Post by mmcgaha »

rayiner wrote: post #51
yingw787 wrote: post #7

I wonder if it's bigger than Sealand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand When I look at the list of demands I'm pretty quick to dismiss it. Then I remember how I dismissed the 1999 WTO protests in Seattle too, and how many of the fears those protesters had were realized over the next two decades. I might be too hopeful, but I really think the city leadership should talk to them and hear them out, i…

The list of demands is extremely tame for a fricking anarchist commune. Look at the list of "economic demands." The biggest ask is de-gentrification and rent control.

defunding police pensions is a bit much.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#140

Post by woodruffw »

solidasparagus wrote: post #94
conroy wrote: post #84

A friend lives in Seattle and texted me today about his visit last night: > I was there last night and it's such a cool pseudo utopian place > The media coverage of it is WILD > People on the internet are convinced it's protected by armed guards and people are dying of hunger and instead its...like a music festival campground > There are speakers, musicians, art walls. I took a group pic for a bunch of black guys las…

> a music festival campground Which is fun for a while until people start dying or fighting like they always do and suddenly you need a group of people who spend their time dealing with it. Anarchic utopias do not stay utopic for all that long.

> Anarchic utopias do not stay utopic for all that long.

At least one counterexample to this is Exarcheia[1] in Athens, which has been relatively unpoliced for the last 50 years.

I was there about a year ago and was struck by how both peaceful and lively it was. Nowhere in Athens felt nearly as alive.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exarcheia

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