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George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

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Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#651

Post by leetcrew »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #606
leetcrew wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't necessarily say that DUI is a victimless crime. you might not hurt anyone, but you've exposed everyone on the road to excess risk, which could be argued is a type of harm. I'm not sure jail time is necessary for DUI. having your license suspended is already a severe punishment in places where you really need a vehicle to get around. requiring an interlock whenever the person is allowed to drive again also…

Well, here we step on a slippery slope of defining a "victimless" crime. Many illegal drugs have a potential of causing harm. Should the harm be purely physical? Homelessness is a public nuisance, which we can choose to ignore, but so is walking naked in a school yard, which will be seen as a much more controversial subject.

tbh, I'm in favor of treating DUI more as a liability thing (ie, automatic fault in the case of an accident and multiplied damages) rather than a crime itself, but that's a pretty controversial position that I didn't want to bring into the debate. plus it has its own issues; liability is not much of a deterrent for someone with minimal assets and/or income.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#652

Post by Agentlien »

mountainboot wrote: post #621
trabant00 wrote: post #421

Watched first 10 videos with youtube links in the list: url - description - what I see in the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4_yJjdsJ_0 - trampling a peaceful protestor with a horse - protester stepped into the horse's way without looking in that direction, nobody's fault https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suTGneu7tZU - Shoving an unarmed woman to the curb, prompting a seizure that put her in the emergency room…

Just watched the first video. "protester stepped into the horse's way without looking in that direction, nobody's fault". This is clearly not true.

I looked at that video and I find it difficult to believe that someone could interpret it as nobody's fault. The protester in question stands there for a good while, moving slowly with the crowd when the horse shows up at an inappropriate speed and just tramples her.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#653

Post by vorpalhex »

GurnBlandston wrote: post #632
vorpalhex wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they should allow innocent people to be killed?

That doesn't follow in the slightest. Lethal force is not the only way to protect - de-escalation is how you protect without destroying lives.

Can you de-escalate when there are innocent bystanders? And if a bystander is harmed while you are attempting to de-escalate, doesn't that make the officer negligent?

Sure, if there's someone hanging out by themselves then de-escalate and do whatever. The moment there are innocent people in harms way though, that calculus changes.

De-escalation is a great catch phrase, but it's not a universal solution. It's one tool of many, and it has a time and place.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#654

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

cies wrote: post #644
SkyBelow wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the notion of victimless. There are crimes that put people at risk but don't always create a victim. Do we allow for crimes that have a risk of a victim even if there isn't a direct victim? There are crimes where we say that someone is a victim despite their own feelings of being victimized or having suffered a crime. Do those stay as well? We have crimes where there isn't someone physically hurt and n…

To most of these I'd say: make 'm offenses not crimes. As I see it: crimes make it punishable by jail time, offenses not.

That's reasonable, but how do we punish (or otherwise deter) offenses?

The most obvious answer seems to be to fine the offenders, but really, how do you fine a homeless person?

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#655

Post by bpyne »

piokoch wrote: post #528
kthejoker2 wrote: post #412

If there ever was a case of "don't comment unless you've RTFA" this it: people extrapolating their viewpoint on a list of 700 things from watching 1, 2, 3 ... At a minimum, watch 100 videos. I did last night, only took about an hour, it's easy to find some to nitpick, some which are ambiguous ... and plenty that are totally horrifying. If you can watch 100 videos in a row from Greg Doucette's list and say, "the milit…

As a non American I am not getting this at all. In many US cities/towns sheriff is elected. In all other cases city mayor is elected. How it happens that all those mayors and sheriffs are still in the office if police brutality is such a big issue? Does this mean that people just do not care, or there is only some minority who thinks that the police is too violent and the rest is ok with that?

I suggest looking for articles in major US publications starting with NPR's site. There's just too much to cover in a comment.

Just as a synopsis, systemic racism became a more subtle segregation. POC (People or Person of Color) were systematically made to appear more violent and criminal-like over time. Combine that notion with an idealized notion of the police as hero figures and you have a recipe for rationalizing violence against POC.

Mobile phone videos allowed us to see from the victim's perspective just how brutal police have become.

"How it happens that all those mayors and sheriffs are still in the office if police brutality is such a big issue?"

To this point, you need to understand about voting districts and how POC voting power has been diluted and prevented over decades.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#656

Post by unethical_ban »

ChefboyOG wrote: post #601
throwaway_USD wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"the militarization and use of force tactics of US law enforcement are not a problem" then I'd like to hear why you think so given this evidence. Just to play devils advocate, can't I conclude there is a problem without that problem being the "militarization" of the police force. In other words aren't I allowed to conclude there was a problem prior to the militarization of the police force, and really what we are se…

I see your example of the extreme end a lot, and while I understand why people arrive at it, I think it's useful to question some of the underlying premises. Oftentimes, I think people say things like "I don't think a few bad police officers ruin policing just like I don't think BLM is evil because of a few violent actors" because they have empathy for police officers who don't do horrible things, and it's sort of a…

I want you to know that this is exactly my position as well, and I am glad to see someone else on the web bring it up - I haven't seen this come up enough when the false equivalence between a mass of unorganized citizens vs. the police is being argued.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#657

Post by vorpalhex »

mindslight wrote: post #638
vorpalhex wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've made a common mistake, and that's confusing people on social media for the majority. Most people don't want to defund their police. Per the latest Monmouth poll, about 60% favor the police (compared to ~11% for congress) and most people see the police as their protectors. Police don't get a lopsided contract by threatening politicians and that's a grossly inflammatory claim. Contracts are negotiated like any o…

Police generally have contracts where they have weaseled out of criminal, civil, and even administrative sanctions, allowing them to break the law with impunity. If you don't see this as extreme corruption, then you don't actually believe in the rule of law. > Per the latest Monmouth poll, about 60% favor the police (compared to ~11% for congress) and most people see the police as their protectors Unfortunately this…

> Police generally have contracts where they have weaseled out of criminal, civil, and even administrative sanctions

That's false. Qualified immunity is a result of a supreme court decision and not part of police contracts. The only thing in most contracts is that police officers who are fired get a chance at mediation for firing disputes.

Police officers do get legal protections, the same way you and I get them. You can't release private records of a police officer, you can't sacrifice them publically to appease an angry group, etc etc.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#658

Post by dragontamer »

zaarn wrote: post #633
dragontamer wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I vaguely know about it because of the anime being broadcasted in some channel. Since it was American made, that makes it a cartoon and not an anime.

Anime can be made in other countries than Japan, it's a genre not an origin.

"Anime" as a word isn't even a genre. Its... incredibly ill-defined.

Actual genres would be "Shonen" (Dragonball Z, Full Metal Alchemist, My Hero Academia), "RomCom" (Ah My Goddess, SNAFU), "Magical Girl" (Sailor Moon, Pretty Cure), Mecha (Gundam), "Sci Fi" (Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in a Shell), "Mindfuck" (Evangeleon, Paprika, Paranoia Agent), or "Isekai" (Overlord, Sword Art, Slime)

And a few shows are blend between genres. Both Inuyasha and Kenshin are Shonen + RomCom blends for example. There are a few shows I can't pin down exactly (Little Witch Academia doesn't seem to follow any genre rules... too many action scenes / stress to be Iyashi. Not enough transformation scenes to be magical girls. Not cute enough to be a moe. Too much supernatural to be slice of life)

---------

Each genre of anime has its own art style, expectations, and writing style. Avatar would probably be a Shonen if I were to pin it to a specific genre (Child protagonist, action scenes aimed primarily at young male audiences... a "Shonen" or young male demographic). Avatar's artstyle is reminiscent of Shonen as well.

Paprika is definitely an "anime", but look at Paprika's art style: https://i.imgur.com/Sf0jtn0.png

Or "Night is short, Walk on Girl": https://i.imgur.com/Tz7w9bo.png

Both Paprika and "Night is short..." are anime and considered anime by the whole community. But stylistically, they are no where close to Avatar, DBZ, Full Metal Alchemist.

--------

The most consistent definition of anime is Japanese origin, or at least "Eastern" cartoons. "Anime-style" describes Avatar, Teen Titans, and RWBY. But its not really acceptable in the community to call those shows "anime". But I guess if we want to get technical about genres and definitions, "Anime" is a word that's too ill-defined to really be useful in these kinds of discussions.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#659

Post by lisper »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #654
cies wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To most of these I'd say: make 'm offenses not crimes. As I see it: crimes make it punishable by jail time, offenses not.

That's reasonable, but how do we punish (or otherwise deter) offenses? The most obvious answer seems to be to fine the offenders, but really, how do you fine a homeless person?

You might start by providing them with a home.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#660

Post by ha4fsd3fas »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #580
hajile wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obvious that you've never even shot a gun before. Pistols aren't particularly accurate in a shooting range even if you take lots of time to aim. With a moving target, adrenaline, and all the other factors in an actual situation, you're going to be lucky if all your shots even make contact with the target. Where do you aim if you want to "shoot to incapacitate"? No such place exists on the body. Even using small,…

Americans certainly know more than western/northern Europe about shooting people, but police here is trained to shoot to incapacitate, and it generally seems to work, as the fatality rate of police shootings is only about half as high as in the US.

Half seems insignificant since in America the shootings are more commonly two sided, which warrants more deadly use of force. You wouldn't stop with the first bullet if your target had a gun in their hand(as opposed to a knife).
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