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George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

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Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#631

Post by Kiro »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #428
Kiro wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine but considering NCIS is the most watched TV show of 2019 I'm sure it holds as a reference for "mainstream". Edit: I know downvote edits are frowned up but... I need to ask: why are people downvoting this? Do you not think NCIS is good example of a mainstream show?

Due to the glut of content available today, viewership is fractured. It doesn't take much to be the "most watched TV show" any more, just like it doesn't actually take many sales to top the music charts. Something can hold a record for viewership while still being something that most of the population (or most of a subculture like us here) remain oblivious to. Also, HN is a global community, and even though many tele…

Even if that is true wouldn't you agree that NCIS is mainstream? If it's not mainstream I don't know what is. Feel free to give a better example.

Let me remind you that the whole discussion started by me highlighting the popularity of The Last Airbender (due to Netflix, as someone pointed out) by comparing it to a mainstream show. I could have taken any popular show but thought taking the one topping the charts would be enough to illustrate it. Apparently not, and in the future I must carefully review the viewing habits of the whole HN community in order to make a point and not offend anyone.

So let me revise the comment: The Last Airbender is as mainstream as any other popular show today.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#632

Post by GurnBlandston »

vorpalhex wrote: post #618
bhandziuk wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they shouldn't have a gun at all

So they should allow innocent people to be killed?

That doesn't follow in the slightest. Lethal force is not the only way to protect - de-escalation is how you protect without destroying lives.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#633

Post by zaarn »

dragontamer wrote: post #457
piva00 wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too as my anecdotal evidence is completely opposite of you, neither myself or anyone I know would get a reference to ATLA, I vaguely know about it because of the anime being broadcasted in some channel. These are all late 20s, early 30s people, Brazilians, Scandinavians, Germans, Dutch and so on, 1984 would immediately be known by most, quite a few have read it, none (even if they know about ATLA, what many don't)…

> I vaguely know about it because of the anime being broadcasted in some channel. Since it was American made, that makes it a cartoon and not an anime.

Anime can be made in other countries than Japan, it's a genre not an origin.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#634

Post by tartoran »

saiya-jin wrote: post #587
zepto wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am completely in support of the idea that these videos show unnecessary police brutality, I have no argument with the message here. I just want to answer your question about shooting to kill vs incapacitate. The first part of the answer is that nobody should shoot anyone who they don’t reasonably believe is trying to kill them. This applies to citizens or police. Generally it is the standard applied in citizen self…

> would require training and practice that simply isn’t available to cops Generally agree apart from this - if cops don't have training to be expert (or at least above-average good) shooters, then that's a failure. We've read tons of articles about militarization of US police. If they have budget for armored vehicles, for sure they have budget for (very cheap but quality basic) 9mm ammunition for practice.

Exactly. They apply a double standard when they need it. They got so stubborn about it up until it got to this point. Now they will loose a lot of their perks. Good! Better learn from this

In Long Island a higher ranked cop would retire after 20 years with a pension of 500k, and in Long Island they really don’t do anything. While that, a new recruit in the Bronx would start at salary of 40k with poor training and lots of headaches. Seems like we need to reform the police!

Discussions about these things just started popping up on NPR and other sources. They brought it up on themselves.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#635

Post by malwrar »

I have no idea why people discussing these protests aren't focusing more on this. How else do you capture "systemic problem" better than widespread thuggish police behavior during countrywide protests about police brutality. Of all the black civil rights activity in recent memory, this is probably one of the most powerful methods of conveying to people the gravity of the issues that black activists talk about.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#636

Post by SkyBelow »

cies wrote: post #506
DebtDeflation wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’ve reached the point where the problem is more than just the equipment, it’s the culture. This is absolutely true, but the problem goes much deeper than just the police force itself. We seem to want to solve every imaginable social problem with police/courts/prisons. Drug abuse needs to be viewed as a public health problem, not a criminal problem. Homelessness as a housing and mental health problem, not a criminal…

Maybe "the right not to be prosecuted for a victimless crime" should be an amendment. Then homelessness/drugs-whatevers/prostitution can no longer have laws against them. "Address the root cause", exactly, and the root cause is the unjust laws. Though cops pretty much never being found guilty for unjust use of violence is a big one too, and I wonder what law changes can solve that issue.

The problem is the notion of victimless.

There are crimes that put people at risk but don't always create a victim. Do we allow for crimes that have a risk of a victim even if there isn't a direct victim?

There are crimes where we say that someone is a victim despite their own feelings of being victimized or having suffered a crime. Do those stay as well?

We have crimes where there isn't someone physically hurt and not a direct theft, but there is a reduction in value of items. Do those crimes stay?

Take zoning laws. Is violating a zoning law victimless? If I open a foul smelling poultry factory in the middle of a downtown commercial zone, it could greatly negatively impact that commercial zone to the point where businesses would not be able to afford to stay open. But if that makes it a victim crime, then what about when homeless people living in that same area also drive away customers to the point it no longer functions as a commercial zone?

As for drugs, what happens when companies start selling direct to users? Antibiotics and opioids without needing a doctor's prescription. We already have seen the problems even when doctor prescriptions are required, imagine what happens if drugs are declared a victimless crime and no longer prosecuted.

I think the notion that some crimes are victimless is based on looking at specific incidents that don't have victims and not considering it at scale. Which is to say that the example by the other poster of drunk driving might be a much more fairer comparison than what people originally took it as, because while the relation between the risk and possible victim is easier to understand, the question is if such a relationship is consistently used to justify a victim, not if the relationship is easy to understand.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#637

Post by socraticmethod »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #580
hajile wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's obvious that you've never even shot a gun before. Pistols aren't particularly accurate in a shooting range even if you take lots of time to aim. With a moving target, adrenaline, and all the other factors in an actual situation, you're going to be lucky if all your shots even make contact with the target. Where do you aim if you want to "shoot to incapacitate"? No such place exists on the body. Even using small,…

Americans certainly know more than western/northern Europe about shooting people, but police here is trained to shoot to incapacitate, and it generally seems to work, as the fatality rate of police shootings is only about half as high as in the US.

"...but police here is trained to shoot to incapacitate, and it generally seems to work."

I've never heard of this practice, and the opposite is regularly taught to various armed forces around the world. I'm curious to read about it, do you have any info or sources to share?

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#638

Post by mindslight »

vorpalhex wrote: post #608
mindslight wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When driving through other jurisdictions with speed traps etc, I certainly do want to blame those taxpayers for enabling their local gang to be attacking me. But if I take a look at the jurisdictions I am party to, I am powerless. Blaming voters is a fallacy of late-stage Democracy. The deep seated issue is the principle agent problem around elected officials. The police threaten the politicians, who don't want to ro…

You've made a common mistake, and that's confusing people on social media for the majority. Most people don't want to defund their police. Per the latest Monmouth poll, about 60% favor the police (compared to ~11% for congress) and most people see the police as their protectors. Police don't get a lopsided contract by threatening politicians and that's a grossly inflammatory claim. Contracts are negotiated like any o…

Police generally have contracts where they have weaseled out of criminal, civil, and even administrative sanctions, allowing them to break the law with impunity. If you don't see this as extreme corruption, then you don't actually believe in the rule of law.

> Per the latest Monmouth poll, about 60% favor the police (compared to ~11% for congress) and most people see the police as their protectors

Unfortunately this instance of corruption is a tough nut to crack. The sheer majority of people will never be victims of the police, just as most people will never be victims of any violent criminal. Hence the focus on video evidence and actually discussing the issue now that it has the spotlight, getting more people to care about these unaccountable criminal gangs calling themselves police. It's called solidarity and the rule of law - caring about what is right even when it does not affect you personally.

>> Blaming voters is a fallacy of late-stage Democracy

> Everyone pretends to like Democracy until they realize not everyone shares their opinion

You just seem to be going on a tangential rant here. I was referring specifically to this tendency to ascribe a democratically-chosen action as the responsibility of everyone who was given a chance to vote. I personally do not hold up Democracy as some sort of ideal, but rather Liberty.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#640

Post by wl »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #465
koheripbal wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pseudo-randomly sampled 30 videos... Almost all of them had outright wrong, or heavily misleading titles and/or descriptions with contradictory claims in the comments - and almost none of them provided context to the police actions. This list is really more about stoking emotions than providing evidence of anything. I mean look at this one... https://twitter.com/jayjanner/status/1267111893753307137 A large volume o…

This is why any footage of an incident used in court must include the entire interaction. Police body cam footage can be rejected as evidence if it does not start with the officer stepping out of his vehicle. This is why so many iPhone recordings from bystanders gets thrown out in trial. Are there instances where police abuse their power? Yes. Absolutely. But it doesn't help anyone when people are cherry picking inst…

> Police body cam footage can be rejected as evidence if it does not start with the officer stepping out of his vehicle. This is why so many iPhone recordings from bystanders gets thrown out in trial.

That's nonsense. Evidence is never excluded because it doesn't tell the whole story. If that were the case, admitting any evidence at all would be a rare occurrence. Rather, each side in a case tries to piece together their version of the story with the evidence that is available to them. Generally speaking, evidence is only excluded if it's unreliable (e.g. hearsay) or irrelevant.

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