Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

docs.google.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 855 posts

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#301

Post by jacobush »

marcell wrote: post #195
slg wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That medical error study is awful. It categorizes any treatment that is given but doesn't work as an error. That only makes sense in a world in which a correct treatment that could cure a patient always exists and that correct option should be known ahead of time by the people treating the patient. Reality doesn't work like that. Here[1] is a write up on the issues in that study. [1] - https://www.statnews.com/2016/0…

Sure, I think that's fair enough. I didn't mean to imply that there are 250,000 cases a year where a heart transplant is performed to cure pneumonia. But of those 250,000, some will be small mistake, and some will be epic fuck ups (see [1]). Similarly, the police shoot around 1,000 people per year. Of those, many are justified, some are are questionable, and a few are epic fuck ups. If you just look at the epic fuck…

People aren't just interested in how questionable the incidents are in isolation. They believe the system is set up such that there are more incidents than there could be. This is what they "defund" part is about. The belief that society would be healthier if some part of money today spent on police, is better spent elsewhere.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#302

Post by jpxw »

sschueller wrote: post #271
vbezhenar wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in US have too many guns. Cops are afraid for their life and use preventive violence.

Switzerland has a lot of guns yet we don't have this police issue here.

How many police are killed in Switzerland per year?

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#304

Post by Pandabob »

arianvanp wrote: post #268
lorthemar wrote: post #229

There needs to be a psychology study done with cops to understand why they act the way they do. I believe there's an underlying problem in how they are trained or something else because police brutality is kind of a global phenomenon. When someone kills or severely hurts the people they are supposed to protect, it seems like there's something else going on. I've been in a few protests and I can easily say that I have…

I was very surprised to hear a cop in the US only gets 3-6 months of training. Here in the Netherlands _basic_ education is 3 years; and then you have another few years to specialize into a specific topic (abuse, fraud, forensics, narcotics..).

Yup, same here in Finland. You get an undergrad degree when going to the police academy.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#305

Post by aaron695 »

DeonPenny wrote: post #65

The fact that is even possible is insane. Imagine there being over 700 videos of pilots messing up in one month, 700 crane operator mishaps in a month, 700+ food poising by a chain in a month. The also imagine you believe there's no problem. This is Ba Sing Se levels of delusion for some people.

> The fact that is even possible is insane. Imagine there being over 700 videos of pilots messing up in one month,

You would easily get this from doctors in one month if they were filmed.

Considerably more in fact. Some studies say medical errors contribute to more than 250,000 deaths per year or even more. That's just deaths, not maiming.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#306

Post by raxxorrax »

onion2k wrote: post #292
raxxorrax wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This cannot be backed up by data. When I travel with a black friend in Europe, I actually get checked occasionally. That never happens when traveling alone. There seem to be issues with profiling here but I don't believe a diagnosis like systemic racism is in any way justified beyond populism.

There seem to be issues with profiling here but I don't believe a diagnosis like systemic racism... Profiling is an aspect of systemic racism.

I profoundly disagree with that definition. Racism needs animosity and distrust doesn't qualify as that. You can make a case that this is the accepted academic nomenclature but I would add that the reasoning behind it is not very sophisticated. I would argue that it could even elevate racial tensions if applied to practical problems. Even beyond factoring in the common scholar diagnosing racism in everything.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#307

Post by partyboat1586 »

jagrsw wrote: post #250
camillomiller wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enjoy your alternative reality

I live in EU (where, generally, the police is trained to minimize-harm, rather than take-control-by-all-means), and I feel a bit the same about this list; a sizeable share of those videos show regular-ish riot control techniques IMO (pushing the crowd down the street etc.). Then, many show police overreaction or outright brutality. But, then, why mix all of those in one big list and call them simply 'brutality'? As m…

I also live in the EU and sometimes I get annoyed by how soft our police are.

I've seen multiple officers unable to take down one violent criminal. Why is there not hand to hand training and strength training? With proper training surely they could do it cleanly without injuring the perp.

I've seen (videos of) cops just walking away from armed criminals, letting them rob a store then tracking them down 6 months later after they do the same thing twice more.

When I look at the US I see the opposite problem. Police shooting a man in the back multiple times. Police using excessive force when arresting people for non violent crime. Police just generally power tripping.

From that perspective I can see why you would want to defund the police but I really would hesitate to do that. The EU is fine with a softer police force because we mostly have no guns and when there are real terrorists we can still bring in armed police. That is not the case in the US plus you are talking about fully defunding the police. Seems like a dangerous experiment to me. Why not reform instead?

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#308

Post by EasyTiger_ »

spike021 wrote: post #170
DeonPenny wrote: post #65

The fact that is even possible is insane. Imagine there being over 700 videos of pilots messing up in one month, 700 crane operator mishaps in a month, 700+ food poising by a chain in a month. The also imagine you believe there's no problem. This is Ba Sing Se levels of delusion for some people.

>This is Ba Sing Se levels of delusion for some people. A reference I never expected to see on HN. It's insane, but then you realize that a significant portion of the US population _still_ only watches television news media and refuses to spend extra time looking at other sources, like Twitter.

Twitter as some source of truth, really?

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#309

Post by Gibbon1 »

zimpenfish wrote: post #294
marcell wrote: post #131

There are lots and lots of mishaps in many professions, sometimes with deadly consequences. The United States is a country of 330 million people. Suppose an event is so unlikely it only has 1 in a billion chance of happening--it will happen once ever 4 days on average! Medical errors, for example, are estimated to cause as many as 250,000 deaths per year [1]. There are millions and millions of daily interactions betw…

> Suppose an event is so unlikely it only has 1 in a billion chance of happening--it will happen once ever 4 days on average! Ok, the EU has 445M citizens[1] which means, by your logic, there should statistically be 40% more police "mistakes" than the US. Except there isn't. It is radically lower[2] (1536 for the USA in 2019 vs 51 for the EU in 2018/19). [1] https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/figures/living_en…

You can also ignore cops in the US killing people and note the police have about 40 million black people in the US living in fear.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#310

Post by baddox »

alexashka wrote: post #285
baddox wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite the opposite. The adversarial job should have higher standards of conduct, not lower.

All humans, not just jobs, should have higher standards of conduct, don't you think? Where are you going to get the humans who are able, wanting and willing to live up those higher standards is my question for you. Last I checked, anyone can decide at any moment to be completely broke, a drug addict, a criminal, an alcoholic, a piece of shit, have an unlimited number of children and everyone else has to support them…

If you can’t find someone to fill a position as a police officer, I would suggest increasing the compensation or leaving the position unfilled before simply accepting anyone who might want to be a cop with no standards whatsoever.

Similar logic would apply to a position for a crane operator or a pilot. If an airline had a pattern of pilot errors, and their excuse was “if we required all our pilots to have adequate pilot training and meet stringent skill requirements, it would be very difficult to hire pilots,” would you accept that?

Post reply on HN