Live data from Hacker News

On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

antirez.com

151–160 of 162 posts

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#151
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your reply, I'll have to give it more thought. I agree with most of it though. > You and other proponents of leaving offensive language intact I was/am actually in favor of removing said language because I want language to be welcoming towards people and people are clearly taking offense. > And who has determined that is not an actual problem? Or that this is not effective or helpful? You? No, I am in no w…

After writing my post, I thought again about directing my arguments at you specifically. It was maybe too personal and assumptive. I think I got too defensive. Anyway, I appreciate that you read what I wrote and chose to keep in the conversation.

Thank you. After reading my initial comment and having given it some thought I think I need to reconsider some of my points.

I really like how ljm put it in this comment:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23509854

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#152
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You shouldn't expect other people to feel the same way as you either. You can't decide how offended someone should be, as that's their own reaction to you. It might seem extreme or overboard to you, but how much do you know about them to judge that? That's a difficult argument. It's totally fine to physically defend yourself if you're being attacked, and what constitutes an attack is obviously perfectly subjective,…

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say; I can see where you're coming from but I'm not sure how you draw your conclusion. > "all feelings are valid, therefore you must act a certain way" Thank you for proving my main post under this topic correct, where I state that people will choose what they hear and respond to that, and not respond to what was actually said. Total failure of communication.

> I'm not really sure what you're trying to say; I can see where you're coming from but I'm not sure how you draw your conclusion.

I'm trying to say that while I do believe we should try to understand whether and why someone feels offended or attacked, we shouldn't use them feeling attacked or offended (or claiming to) as a strict guideline for actions, and we should judge their actions and reactions not based on whether they felt offended, but on whether a reasonable person would have felt offended, much like we do for e.g. self-defense.

> Total failure of communication.

That may be a total failure in the way I'm trying to communicate. I didn't mean to suggest that that's what you said, I exaggerated what I understood your position to be to make it obvious why I believe it to be a difficult approach.

When we allow subjective things like feeling offended to be used as general facts, we're going to end up with two opposing parties both claiming offense - if there was no opposition, there would be no issue.

Once we're there, we are back to square one: who is right in being offended? If we then say "well, I like that person, so they are right", we really don't need to talk about the whole thing, because sympathy-based decision making has always been a thing and everybody understands how it works, and very few people would claim any sort of fairness or system (after all, we cannot deduce anything from any previous decision, as the decisions depend on who the parties are, not on the issue itself).

If we instead try to find some general rule, we can just skip the whole "I'm feeling offended" stage and proceed directly to this one, that is, to the claim "this is offensive", which implies "a reasonable person will agree, it's not about my feelings, my tribal membership, my background, my experiences and personal convictions".

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the topic of romans and meanings changing, the word decimation used to mean the killing of one in ten in the Roman legions as a way to get military discipline. Nowadays there is no connection to Roman legions nor killing and actually is used to refer as a synonimous to anyhalation in general. It annoys me this slave thing because racism or xenophobia are often very complex and real problems of disaffection and soc…

> yet we are policing words as if it has any corrective impact. Exactly. There are far bigger fish to fry than whether or not some piece of software uses terms that can be misconstrued to be somehow racist (riddle me this: is BDSM inherently racist because that subculture uses "master" and "slave" terminology?). We (at least here in the US) are in dire need of widespread reforms throughout our "justice" system, parti…

> I can't speak to other countries and their race relations, but my impression from hearing about their attitudes toward immigrants/refugees is that they ain't much better.

I wouldn't conflate the two, they are not connected. After WW2, ethnic Germans from Eastern Europe were forced to migrate to Germany. There obviously was no race-issue, as they were not only the same race, they were the same ethnicity, they spoke the same language. And still they weren't welcome by the local population, as their arrival primarily meant that whatever the locals had would now be shared.

Pretty much all opposition to immigration is economic. Race doesn't play a part in the motivation, it's a secondary thing that comes into play afterwards. If immigration was a (significant, visible) net benefit to every person in the country (it is not, and you'll usually find the anti-immigration opinions with those who stand to lose from immigration, and, unsurprisingly, the pro-immigration stance with those who stand to gain), there would be much, much fewer objections. Consider a headline like "Nigerian billionaire seeks to immigrate and promises to invest in the rust belt and create tens of thousands of jobs in manufacturing". Do you believe Trump-supporters would protest that person's immigration?

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#154
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see that my comment was downvoted a lot. I suspect that this is because only offended people vote at all. This down-voting is real discrimination. It offends and hurts me for real in a profound way. How would you down-voters feel if I downvoted you for expressing an idea which captures the essence of who you are? I struggle with this issue for real, every day of my life. People don't take introverted, unopinion…

If you are born careless and not easily offended, why would the downvotes affect you? There seems to be some inherent conflict in your statements. If you have no opinions, then you take no stand. Why should people take you seriously? I believe that you have strong opinions about people should act and feel (No one should get offended because you do not get offended by a particular statement) and that comes across as v…

I was just being sarcastic. I was just trying to make a point about double standards of discrimination. Discrimination about physical attributes is not OK, but discrimination against thinking and personality is OK.

My view is that discrimination is never OK.

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#155
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's paradoxical that they want these changes merged to "master".

Master has multiple meanings, not just slave master. As in mastery, master tape, master craftsman. In git, there are no "slave" branches, so "master" does not evoke slavery.

On the contrary, naming of "master" branch in git does seem to derive from master/slave terminology... https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2019-May/...

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#156
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Master has multiple meanings, not just slave master. As in mastery, master tape, master craftsman. In git, there are no "slave" branches, so "master" does not evoke slavery.

On the contrary, naming of "master" branch in git does seem to derive from master/slave terminology... https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2019-May/...

That's hearsay. Bitkeeper uses master/slave for repositories not branches.

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#157
post #7

The problem I’m starting to see is that the continued use of phrases like this (master/slave, blacklist/whitelist) can be a constant reminder to some that they “don’t belong here.” Obviously, in this context, they aren’t meant to be racist; but they are a reminder that racism exists. The end result is that it makes more people feel unwanted and ultimately leave tech.

>they are a reminder that racism exists.

So you want everyone to forget racism exists? (Because it does BTW).

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#158
I definitely disagree with some parts of the article, but his basic point on the futility of giving way too much power to harmless words is sound.

So much so that I don't understand why this got flagged (while, for instance, the one on github trying to change this wasn't).

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#159
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's paradoxical that they want these changes merged to "master".

Master has multiple meanings, not just slave master. As in mastery, master tape, master craftsman. In git, there are no "slave" branches, so "master" does not evoke slavery.

I agree with you but they seem to be changing the default 'master' in github because of this. https://twitter.com/natfriedman/status/1271253144442253312

Re: On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you assert “nobody cares”, you’re just being a jerk. Lots of people do, you just don’t care. And your reduction ad absurdum argument is not convincing at all here. Yes it is possible to take this too far. Some people probably do take it too far. The concepts of light and dark are physical realities as in a black hole being the absence of reflected or emitted light. And they have long been used as metaphors for o…

> It’s an overt and completely unnecessary reference to slavery, and not even a particularly apt or useful analogy. Is it not far more demeaning to act like anyone would crumble under the weight of mere words used in a technical context? Should we drop the term clone because it causes the religious to dwell on evil scientists playing god?

> Is it not far more demeaning to act like anyone would crumble under the weight of mere words used in a technical context?

No, it's not far more demeaning. You're really arguing that it's demeaning to be decent and respect other people's feelings and reactions to things?

With that attitude, should I just walk around insulting people for no reason, telling everyone I come across to go fuck themselves? Because it would be far more demeaning to assume that someone can't handle being told to go fuck themselves.

Post reply on HN