Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

591–600 of 740 posts

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#591

Post by electricviolet »

Mizza wrote: post #392
electricviolet wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that those who prefer monogamy and those who prefer sleeping around / being a "slut" simply have different personalities? Just because your monogamous friends are happy and fulfilled doesn't mean your slutty friends would be happy if they lived the same way. Humans are varied.

Of course, I'm only speaking from my own experience, but I've seen what's being described here in real life. There are big winners and big losers. Talking to my Tindersex-addicted friend about his behavior - which has been very destructive to his own life - he believes that it comes from a place of trauma as a coping mechanism, not simply a lifestyle preference. In a similar vein, many women I know who only had uncom…

Ok, maybe this is where our disconnect lies -- I also have friends who consider themselves "sluts" and have a lot of sexual partners, but for most of them it's coming from a very intentional place and brings them a lot of joy.

Note that these same friends also have stable, fulfilling (non-monongamous) relationships in their lives.

I think that's why I bristle when I see people equating slutty behaviour with lack of fulfillment or trauma. I think that sex absolutely can be an unhealthy coping mechanism; but so can alcohol, yet many people manage to use alcohol in a fun and safe way.

I think that presenting commitment and sluttiness as the only two options is harmful, and it keeps people in destructive sexual patterns because they don't think they can have broad sexual exploration at the same time as serious relationships, so they avoid relationships altogether. It takes a lot of work, but you can have both! And I think that the more we become comfortable with that as a society, the healthier we will be.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#592

Post by cambalache »

minkzilla wrote: post #218
cambalache wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think a young heterosexual man who wants to have sex and doesnt get it is happy?

Why not? I’d like to eat steak every night for dinner but I can’t have that and I’m still happy. Sex is just one aspect of life, not it’s totality

Do you belong to that demographics?

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#593

Post by selimthegrim »

jchallis wrote: post #88
foepys wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have data for this but I believe that legal polygamy is a big contributor to political extremism. Sexual frustration leads to inferiority complexes that result in aggression against the norm. As an example I see the Middle East where polygamy is not unheard of and the rise of the Islamic State or the Taliban. Would be interesting if anybody has data on this.

Economist had an interesting article on violence related to polygamy. I'd be interested if political extremism is a subcase of a violence or something orthogonal. https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2017/12/19/the-...

Weird that all the anonymous Pakistani names they chose are Hindu or Sikh. A Hindu judge is rare but possible. Polygamy for Hindus was abolished in India in the 1950s but grandfathered in (the word for co-wife, sotan, still exists but I've never heard Muslims use it), but Pakistan just passed a new Hindu Marriage bill and I don't know the status of polygamy under it.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#594

Post by cambalache »

watwut wrote: post #271
cosmodisk wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things move faster in women world: in their 20s they run the show and a lot of average or above average men get rejected/ignored. In their 30s, the situation changes cardinally,as a lot of top candidates are already in relationships/married/kids,etc. So now most of those left behind moved on a bit,got better jobs,higher income,some even hit the gym,and so on. So now they are the ones who are choosing and all of sudde…

It is interesting that you are simultaneously ressentful of women not dating men of their age and simultaneously happy about old men dating young women. Given that there are similar amount of girls and boys, this guarantees that younger men of next generation will have to compete with older men for same pool of women.

Yes, but those younger men will become older and a new generation of women will come up. That is how it has been for centuries.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#595

Post by troughway »

koonsolo wrote: post #544
downerending wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed this among the young men in my extended family and friends. One guy is model cute, and goes out on Tinder "dates" whenever he wants (new girl weekly, at least). He had a live-in girlfriend, but with an open relationship. And if I were one of these women, I'd probably do the same thing. Even if you can't marry a hottie, if you can have sex with one a few times, that still sounds like fun. The other guys,…

> And if I were one of these women, I'd probably do the same thing. My wife works with men and women who have a hard time finding relationships, so I have a bit of insight here. You are completely wrong about what women want. You think that women are the same as men, but you are wrong. Women do not want a 'hottie'. I can tell you those women who go out with that 'hottie' have no self esteem, and are not happy. They e…

>Women do not want a 'hottie'. I can tell you those women who go out with that 'hottie' have no self esteem, and are not happy. They end up at my wife's practice.

Out of curiosity, how do you integrate the online dating studies that point to 70%+ of women only wanting the top 20% of men (ie. the "hotties") into your wife's practice, and what she sees from her clients?

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#596

Post by wutbrodo »

koonsolo wrote: post #557
wutbrodo wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> complaints from women about finding a monogamous guy Yea, it's a bizarre dynamic: women who are looking for lots of casual sex are fine, but the women I know who are looking for deeper relationships are continually frustrated. It seems pretty stupid on its face, but female attraction is really complicated, and if the women in my friend group are any indication, they don't quite understand how it works either[1]. Es…

> Especially once they reach their thirties and get hit with the double whammy of declining attractiveness and a higher desire for deeper relationships. You mean their biological clock is ticking to get kids? > female attraction is really complicated They indeed look for more aspects than men. But I think it can best be summed up as: 1. successful man 2. man sweet enough to take care of the family 3. man hard enough…

> You mean their biological clock is ticking to get kids?

Partially, but the fact that the men I know are more likely to want deeper relationships too suggests that it's not entirely due to that. Aging changes preferences: most people also have fewer, closer friends as they age too.

> And they are not looking for jerks. They are looking for jerks to the outside world, and sweet to them. Basically a man who can and will protect them and their family.

I didn't mention anything about jerks.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#597

Post by sbierwagen »

Nav_Panel wrote: post #300
roosterdawn wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, this feels intuitively correct. I've heard a formalization of the prisoner's dilemma called the IQ shredder [1]. Whether it's a reach or not is something I am still debating internally. At the very least, I do sense that I, as someone who's working in tech and experience relatively stable upward career momentum, there's only so long I can "hang on" to my yuppie lifestyle before it works against my end goals to…

IQ Shredder is a dangerous concept, because it displaces "human worth" onto _individual_ fertility and offspring. If we follow that ethics a little further, we might find ourselves fully devaluating any religious practice which has an element of chastity (because it's dysgenic, obviously!), as well as condemning homosexuality along similar lines. The fact of the matter is that, psychologically speaking on the level o…

"IQ shredder" simply describes what is happening. You may not like what it describes, but calling it "dangerous" is odd. Is describing water as wet also dangerous?

>condemning homosexuality

There are worse things than condemnation. In Somalia, homosexuality is punishable by death. Somalia also has a birth rate of 5.93. The future is populated by those who show up. If you want gay rights to continue to exist, then you should want LGBT-friendly nations to have a birth rate higher than replacement.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#598

Post by geodel »

koonsolo wrote: post #536
geodel wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is quite reasonable approach that these men are taking. I'd think of myself in that category. With society going in direction where social norms are evolving faster than many have mental bandwidth to deal with, it would be wise to just save time, money and energy to acquire that fake attractiveness. May be men have also taken cue from pop song 'You are beautiful just the way you are...'

My wife works with both men and women to fix their problems with finding a good relationship, and what you describe is the most common way of thinking among those men. Most of them are too stubborn to deviate from "they just have to accept me the way I am". Seriously, getting a nice haircut, dressing nicely, grooming yourself and smelling good has nothing to do with your personality. In this sense, men have it way ea…

I mean what you say sounds pretty reasonable. I wonder it also sound reasonable if I say "Well black men have it really easy, they have great skin tone and better physique than average. All they have to do is to not dress like punk or wear hoodies and have hair cut short so they don't have run in with police often"

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#599

Post by wutbrodo »

swat535 wrote: post #550
wutbrodo wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I enter my thirties, this dynamic has started to shift dramatically. All the women I know who haven't settled down by their early 30s are having crises about their inability to find a compatible mate, just as their physical attractiveness is declining precipitously[1]. As the priority shifts from sex/light companionship to deeper relationships, women's position in the modern dating market goes from very good to ve…

I'm not following you here.. Why would the attractive 25 year olds date 30 year old average men when they can have sex with top men? Your average 30yo men having access to women near his own age makes sense but not for younger women, since they seek the top 10% at that age.

Because this isn't a simple binary; not every good-looking 25 year-old is going to find the single-richest person, the friends I'm talking about are all rich and successful (and have the related qualities that signal money and class without looking nouveau riche)[1], and the girls they date are good-looking but not perfect 10s.

On top of that, the subpopulation of 30 y/o women I mentioned are the ones who are still single at 30. There are a good amount who didn't fully go the casual-sex route and skewed more towards finding a relationship: those are the type of people that my friends are dating. (Though even within an individual, it's not like people make an all-or-nothing decision between flings and deeper relationships: it's just a preference, and an ongoing decision about where to put one's energy).

As you allude to, I slightly switched the topic of conversation from "average men" to "my rich social circle". What I was getting at is that these same people, despite being pretty rich in their early 20s too, now have almost the same situation that women in their early/mid-20s have: lots of power in the dating market. The implication, to me, is that men who are more average in desirability will have correspondingly less luck but still experience that shift in power, as women their age who have fallen off the desirability cliff "settle" for them. I've noticed the same myself: I'm rich and I'm told I'm funny and reasonably good-looking, but I'm also not very tall; I did a little dating in my early 20s, and was in a long-term relationship for much of my 20s, but the last few years (late 20s), is the first time I've had a pretty decent clip of getting openly hit on by women without putting any effort into it.

I don't want to make this sound like I have it all figured out; it's just something I've noticed in my own experiences and the experiences of all my friends, and I have a model that explains it reasonably well (and comports with the broader science on sexuality that I'm aware of).

[1] It doesn't escape me how this sounds, and if I'm being honest, I find class-signaling to be pretty gross. But it's just a reality I've observed in the corner of the dating market that I have visibility into through my own and my friends' experiences.

Re: Young U.S. men having a lot less sex in the 21st century, study shows

#600

Post by geodel »

asdff wrote: post #470
geodel wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is quite reasonable approach that these men are taking. I'd think of myself in that category. With society going in direction where social norms are evolving faster than many have mental bandwidth to deal with, it would be wise to just save time, money and energy to acquire that fake attractiveness. May be men have also taken cue from pop song 'You are beautiful just the way you are...'

What social norms are really changing that are so very overwhelming? The only really changing social norm is wider acceptance of different lifestyles and people, and if it takes some people serious bandwidth to process the golden rule, maybe these people really should be sitting out on the outset of society for better or worse. It seems harsh, but I see a lot of people externalize all their personal issues on perceiv…

> maybe these people really should be sitting out on the outset of society for better or worse.

Well they are already kind of sitting out.

> the expectation that you treat everyone with equal respect.

Thats an old humbug. IMO it merely means respect for people or group who are ideological flavor of the season.

Post reply on HN