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Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#741

Post by darkarmani »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #589
dgellow wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just my personal opinion: I’m from a european country, so not a US perspective. Anyone with a weapon is scary as hell. I avoid to come close to any military or police people if they seem to be armed. Also I don’t know how are festivals in the US, but I’ve never seen armed cops at one, and would be really uncomfortable if there would be some.

> Anyone with a weapon is scary as hell. I avoid to come close to any military or police people if they seem to be armed. I agree. But most people who have been claiming that "CHAZ is being ruled by warlords" (or some similar permutation) are the same people who were totally fine with armed anti–lockdown protests at government buildings a month or so ago. They're the same people who have sided with the police as they…

> are the same people who were totally fine with armed anti–lockdown protests at government buildings a month or so ago. They're the same people who have sided with the police as they attack peaceful protestors in the name of "law and order".

I didn't see where this person up thread was fine with the anti-lockdown armed protesters or claimed to side with the police attacking peaceful protesters. Can't those things be wrong and having local warlords in charge also be wrong?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#742

Post by umvi »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #690
umvi wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless, full auto is misleadingly portrayed in media as being orders of magnitude more deadly than semi auto, hard to change that (for example[0]). Nevermind handguns kill more than all other gun types combined, it's the "military" style ones that politicians and media focus on because they look scary (again, also disregarding the fact that a functionally equivalent semi-auto hunting rifle has exactly the same de…

>a functionally equivalent semi-auto hunting rifle has exactly the same destructive power). I'd strongly argue against this point. Most hunting rifles have 5 round mags (legal limit for hunting in a lot of places). They won't accept 30 round mags. They're also chambered in more powerful calibers which have much more recoil. An active shooter with his dad's hunting rifle is much less dangerous than the same shooter wi…

> They won't accept 30 round mags.

Why not? Seems like as long as the magazine can protrude from the bottom, you can have any capacity magazine you want.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#743

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

bowmessage wrote: post #556
undersuit wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate the laughter at the vegetable garden. Oh lets mock people for planting what could be food where it used to a a useless piece of turf. We shouldn't be mocking them we should be following their example across the country.

It wasn't a useless piece of turf, it was a park that the residents of the neighborhood, myself included, used to be able to enjoy. Now we can't, because hundreds are camping on the area. I am all for their cause, but I feel like the methodology of 'camping in a park' is not the right way to enact civic change at a policy level.

Finally! An actual resident speaks up.

Interesting how divergent the actual residents feel vs everyone else

Clearly this is a "fantastic idea" and "summer carnival feel" until they do it right on your back yard

How about these occupiers propise taking it to the area or zone they actually live in?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#744

Post by [deleted] »

djsumdog wrote: post #439
solidasparagus wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a music festival campground Which is fun for a while until people start dying or fighting like they always do and suddenly you need a group of people who spend their time dealing with it. Anarchic utopias do not stay utopic for all that long.

It's like we're watching Animal Farm play out in real time. All animals start off equal, but some animals will eventually grow to be more equal than others.

[deleted]

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#746

Post by solidasparagus »

standardUser wrote: post #531
solidasparagus wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically the music festivals I've been to. It's fun and a wonderful feeling for a while, but eventually the idiots/assholes will become a problem that needs to be dealt with. Or nature throws a disaster at you and there is chaos. It's a little hard to come up with historical examples because the utopia portion is often quite short and overshadowed by the negatives that follow. Generally, I would point to almost a…

The continued existence of Christiania in Denmark should prove to you sufficiently that these types of attempts are not automatically doomed.

I mean would Seattle residents really consider CHAZ turning into Christiania a win? For a community of less than 1000 people, it seems to have a ridiculous amount of violence and crime.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#747

Post by chillacy »

empath75 wrote: post #452
solidasparagus wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a music festival campground Which is fun for a while until people start dying or fighting like they always do and suddenly you need a group of people who spend their time dealing with it. Anarchic utopias do not stay utopic for all that long.

Yeah, eventually it will end up with all homeless people and drug addicts, unfortunately. For now, there's enough regular people to keep it feeling safe and fun, but eventually it will get 'scary' and the normal people will leave and it'll basically be skid row.

Well to be fair it's not like Cap Hill wasn't already full of "homeless people and drug addicts" before, and that hasn't stopped it from also being a hip neighborhood.

It'll be a decent experiment to see if they can come up with non-violent policing alternatives to keep order, or if they resort to the same tactics as before.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#748

Post by erulabs »

I have mixed feelings on my own reaction to this. A huge part of me loves this - and supports a huge chunk of their demands. Then they talk about free housing and rent control... and I can feel myself shy away. I can imagine how other moderates / economics students / actual conservatives might react. It pains me to have to split my values. Do you support good intentions paired with policies you believe will cause more harm than good - or do you side with policies you agree with even though it makes you an “enemy” to the peer culture you yearn to belong to. Republicans won’t listen to comments about open borders, and Democrats won’t listen to comments about the issues with nationalization.

This has been my political problem my whole life. Agree with old white boomers on tax policy and with young radicals on immigration policy. Far too often my brain says “keep your mouth shut” - “save it for other Econ nerds” - and I’m beginning to think I’m no longer OK with that conclusion. Support to Seattle!

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#749

Post by loeg »

downerending wrote: post #703
loeg wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really not clear at this time why they left. Chief Best claims she did not order police to leave. SPD's organizational structure is such that the police report only to the police chief. However, it was clearly organized — police brought in a rented commercial truck and removed some belongings, and boarded up the outside.

It's somewhat telling that both the mayor and the police chief deny ordering the abandonment. Who the hell is running the city?

The open question is not about the city generally, but the police. "Who are the Seattle police accountable to?" And: good question. No one, apparently.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#750

Post by loeg »

jpindar wrote: post #713
loeg wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah you say that but in a tight crowd with nowhere to go, and enough ammunition, you can do a lot of damage. E.g., the Vegas shooting at a music festival with pseudo-automatic bump stocks.

Each bullet does the same amount of damage, regardless of whether they are fired 0.1 seconds apart or 0.3 seconds apart. (Made up numbers, but a semiautomatic can be fired very quickly if you aren't taking time to aim.)

This pedantic distinction ignores reality. Police response to a shooter is measured in some finite number of seconds. N / 0.3 is smaller than N / 0.1. Slower fire rate matters.
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