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Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

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Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#631

Post by at_a_remove »

plokiju21 wrote: post #604
at_a_remove wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4chan sort of has a consensus in that it is contrarian by default. If the right was in power (Congress, media, and so forth), they would be left. The contrarian stance extends within itself in a fractal manner, so of course you have people inside objecting to that . However, the image I cannot stop smiling at is an elongated figure with an FBI cap, glowing green and using a stick to poke at a small ball with the 4cha…

> If the right was in power (Congress, media, and so forth), they would be left. How much power does the right need before they're considered "in power"? They controlled both branches of congress and the presidency until 2018, and have a majority on the supreme court. Fox news is the most popular media platform, and have tremendous (but not full) control over the mainstream narrative. This as "in control" as a single…

You have left out a word perhaps I should have included in all caps: MEDIA.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#632

Post by loeg »

_-david-_ wrote: post #477
mcv wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't it the police who abandoned this area in the first place? The impression I'm getting from this and other events from the past weeks is that the police would like us to believe that without them, society turns to chaos, but in practice, US police turns out to be a major source of chaos, and without them things often turn much more peaceful. I'm not saying there should be no police at all, but that police should…

The police left because they were told to leave not because they wanted to leave.

It is really not clear at this time why they left. Chief Best claims she did not order police to leave. SPD's organizational structure is such that the police report only to the police chief. However, it was clearly organized — police brought in a rented commercial truck and removed some belongings, and boarded up the outside.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#633

Post by djsumdog »

dgellow wrote: post #426
ShamelessC wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for leaving this one up. I understand it's not the discourse this site is directly interested in, but the occasional opportunity to debate such issues in an intelligent forum is something I have trouble finding elsewhere on the internet. Having said that, I'm sure these types of post create a lot of work for you. I appreciate the upkeep and please keep up the good work!

> the occasional opportunity to debate such issues in an intelligent forum is something I have trouble finding elsewhere on the internet. That's maybe the good place to ask: What are other places (maybe places more open to political discussions) the HN crowd would recommend for "intelligent discussions"? Twitter and Reddit are an awful mess at the moment.

I'd suggest ActiviyPub servers (Mastodon, Pleroma, etc.) There are a ton of instances out there or you can start your own. There is a lot of good discourse out there .. and cat pictures.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#634

Post by HeroOfAges »

cwkoss wrote: post #587
pjc50 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She said that, but is it actually true? Besides, one of the long list of complaints is that police are often useless or worse at dealing with rapes; Minneapolis PD had a massive backlog of untested rape kits. (edit: correctly gendered the police chief, hadn't bothered looking at the tweet)

In the past week SPD has lied about: - "Incendiary devices" being thrown at officers: it was a candle - as can be seen by the sticker visible in SPD's own tweets - Businesses being 'extorted': appears SPD leadership got a false report of this from a local alt-right personality and spread it in their press briefing. - People checking IDs for entry: streamers have been trying to find anyone on the ground who can substa…

Why can't people counter protest?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#635

Post by acomjean »

undefined1 wrote: post #549
conroy wrote: post #84

A friend lives in Seattle and texted me today about his visit last night: > I was there last night and it's such a cool pseudo utopian place > The media coverage of it is WILD > People on the internet are convinced it's protected by armed guards and people are dying of hunger and instead its...like a music festival campground > There are speakers, musicians, art walls. I took a group pic for a bunch of black guys las…

Portraying it as some mad max wasteland is absurd, but so is referring to it as even pseudo utopian. It's not sustainable in any way and there wasn't exactly a democratic process by which the residents of Seattle agreed to having a section of their city turned into an autonomous zone. Though it could be an interesting experiment to do this somewhere, I think it'd have to go through a vote.

burning man?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#636

Post by loeg »

shadowgovt wrote: post #607
Fellshard wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because some people are still rational enough to treat individuals on an individual basis.

If that means people are taking the SPC's word as truth because they have priors she's generally truthful, that's sensible. If people are taking the SPC's word as truth because they have priors that cops are truthful, that's an invalid prior based on how much general lying recent events have demonstrated cops do. If people are taking SPC's word as truth because they have no priors, that's bias to authority and people…

> Do we have any evidence that the Seattle police chief is generally truthful?

Chief Best has made multiple false statements of fact just this week, so, no.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#637

Post by DenisM »

hopfscotch2 wrote: post #580
DenisM wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The police follow orders from their chain of command that goes up to an elected official. You can petition the elected official, occupy their building, grill them in the media, and vote them out if you convince the other citizens. For example the knee-to-the-neck move was a part of the "orders" in that it was part of standard procedure and it is now being revised and removed. Similarly the tear gas was part of the pr…

"on occasion" this is hysterical

I actually started with "low-grade ongoing violence" then replaced it with "occasional violence" thinking it better describes the perception in the media as attention to the subject comes and goes.

What would you rather see?

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#638

Post by oh_sigh »

If this is going to be anything like the autonomous zones I've visited in Berlin and Copenhagen, it is going to be filled with graffiti, drug dealing, and not much else in terms of public use.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#639

Post by jmpman »

danharaj wrote: post #389
jmpman wrote: post #378

I’ve always wondered, if a community like this were able to completely leave the US, and didn’t have to pay for the military, or the police, would they be able to fund their own demands for free healthcare, free college, etc? I’m going to guess that overall, the occupants are below the average income level of Seattle, but would they be able to afford the lifestyle they’re requesting?

Is "lifestyle" the most appropriate word you could choose for "access to healthcare and education"?

Each of those items have a cost associated with them, at least at a societal level, even if they are provided free to the end consumer. A doctor, even if providing free services in a completely altruistic manner, must eat and be housed, as do college professors. A society must choose how to allocate their resources. Based upon the CHAZ demands, they wish to have a society which provides healthcare and college. I would call that a lifestyle.

My question was, does there exist a sufficient productivity in the population in the CHAZ to provide those services to their population?

From Wikipedia: Lifestyle is the interests, opinions, behaviours, and behavioural orientations of an individual, group, or culture.

The demand for access to healthcare and education does seem to be the interest, opinion and behavior of this group.

Re: Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

#640

Post by loeg »

latencyloser wrote: post #382
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the right, I am seeing: - It's called Antifastan - Warlord Raz is prone to violent outbursts, and is an AirBnb Superhost. - There are open carries with automatic rifles. They get the most respect. - Laughing out loud at an attempt to create a vegetable garden. Didn't appear promising. - Laughing harder at a cry for 'please send vegan meats and soy products, the homeless took all the food!' My thinking is, the trut…

Those are not automatic rifles, they're very likely all semi-automatic. Semi-automatic rifles can look the same as automatic rifles, visual appearance doesn't mean much. Automatic rifles in the US are much, much more difficult and expensive to acquire than one would think--tens of thousands of dollars usually vs ~$500 for a semi-automatic variant. Sorry if that seems pedantic, but the media uses the understandably ea…

> Automatic rifles in the US are much, much more difficult and expensive to acquire than one would think--tens of thousands of dollars usually

Clarification: to acquire legally. It is not nearly that expensive black market.

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