Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report • Hacker News Board

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#221

Post by dagmx » Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

twybrobdingnag wrote: post #180

dagmx wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vox actually covers this really well https://www.vox.com/2020/6/5/21280425/new-york-times-tom-cot... Basically it boils down to: * it was a fairly dangerous opinion with fabrications that weren’t vetted by the editorial team * it was disrespectful and dangerous to the safety of their employees of color. The safety of people should not be a partisan issue * it compromised the reporting abilities of other arms of the N…

What I found fascinating in this story is that NYT claims with a straight face that the respective piece is dangerous specifically to their employees of color. I can see how one can hyperventilate 'military in the streets' to 'military shooting live ammunition indiscriminately into masses of peaceful protestors', and I can see how they'd imagine their brave reporters being in the front lines to keep us informed, but…

You have to be purposefully ignoring the reality of current events in the USA to take your position unfortunately. Have you looked at how much more aggressively police have been targeting people of color during these protests? Your view only makes sense in a truly equal world. We are not in that world.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#222

Post by cptskippy » Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

berdario wrote: post #106

rayiner wrote: post #7

USA Today has the best coverage of this I’ve seen. The NYT coverage of this is awful: https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html A key fact is that the police shot Taylor after her boyfriend shot at the police, thinking they were intruders. While he was fully entitled to do that, the NYT doesn’t believe in gun rights so that’s a messy fact. To make the victim seem more sympathetic, the narrative under…

> Obviously nobody expects the police not to shoot back when fired upon. I do. They should temporarily cover to safety, understand the situation, announce themselves and attempt to de-escalate. Only if gunfire persist after that, it's reasonable to use deadly force. That's the LAST thing they should do (because in fact, mistakes at that point will be final, with mortal consequences)

> attempt to de-escalate.

"I know that I just kicked down your door in the dead of night guns draw to gain the element of surprise because I anticipated or wanted an altercation but now that I know you have a gun and are actively trying to kill me, I'd like to ask you to calm down."

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#223

Post by Zxian » Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 2:12 PM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #174

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great that German police are trained to react that way. But American police are not. American police are trained to prioritize their own safety and survival above the safety and survival of suspects or even innocent bystanders. There's no consideration of intention or what information people are acting on - if there's a potentially lethal threat to the policeman, it must be dominated and suppressed. So yes, wi…

Isn't this one of the main things that people are protesting about. Police shouldn't be trained like this. They could also carry things like tasers which allow them to protect themselves without killing anyone.

Correction: while minimizing the risk of death. Tasers can still kill people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dzieka%C5%84ski_Taser...

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#224

Post by jkestner » Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

DagAgren wrote: post #203

kjaftaedi wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They published a story about the publication of the article and the events leading up to it. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/04/business/new-york-times-o... The editor in question also resigned. Not saying it justifies the original publication, but I appreciate the way it was handled.

It was handled that way only after first handling it incredlby, horrendously badly. They were dragged kicking and screaming by their entire staff into handling it correctly only after a week of absolutely bungling it.

I subscribe to the Times for that staff. I skip over the clickbait of the Stephenses and Brookses and read Blow and Bouie.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#225

Post by nicoburns » Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

Zxian wrote: post #223

nicoburns wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this one of the main things that people are protesting about. Police shouldn't be trained like this. They could also carry things like tasers which allow them to protect themselves without killing anyone.

Correction: while minimizing the risk of death. Tasers can still kill people. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dzieka%C5%84ski_Taser...

They certainly can. But they're a lot less likely to than a gun. I think their use would be justified in the case that a policeman was being shot at.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#226

Post by trfhuhg » Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 2:17 PM UTC

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #184

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #52

I find it very telling about the state of policing in the US when the law enforcement community knows they have the world's eyes on them, and they have the audacity to put that someone who was killed had 0 injuries. It doesn't help that the cops had the wrong address, and the person they were looking for was already in custody.

Or the fact that they were serving a no-knock warrant. The only reason for a no-knock warrant is to prevent destruction of evidence, which means, practically, flushing drugs down the toilet. Well, if this kind of situation is the result of no-knock raids in society, I'm fine with missing some convictions because drugs got flushed. No-knock raids shouldn't exist. Neither should the "war on drugs." In this case, they w…

It wasn't a no knock warrant, though. They said they announced themselves. They obviously lied, but this lie exposed the truth that the raid was their own initiative for their own reasons. The lame warrant story is likely meant to hide the more nefarious truth that there are rogue cops roaming around and raiding random apartments as they see fit. Basically, police no longer needs to consult with courts.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#227

Post by save_ferris » Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 2:18 PM UTC

dandanqu82 wrote: post #209

save_ferris wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention they wanted to charge the boyfriend with attempted murder after all that happened.

Did they not charge him with attempted murder? They initially arrested him after the shoot out.

They did, and recently dropped the charges[0].

0: https://www.wdrb.com/in-depth/prosecutors-drop-attempted-mur...

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#228

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 2:19 PM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #174

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great that German police are trained to react that way. But American police are not. American police are trained to prioritize their own safety and survival above the safety and survival of suspects or even innocent bystanders. There's no consideration of intention or what information people are acting on - if there's a potentially lethal threat to the policeman, it must be dominated and suppressed. So yes, wi…

Isn't this one of the main things that people are protesting about. Police shouldn't be trained like this. They could also carry things like tasers which allow them to protect themselves without killing anyone.

[deleted]

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#229

Post by alistairSH » Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

Mirioron wrote: post #157

berdario wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously nobody expects the police not to shoot back when fired upon. I do. They should temporarily cover to safety, understand the situation, announce themselves and attempt to de-escalate. Only if gunfire persist after that, it's reasonable to use deadly force. That's the LAST thing they should do (because in fact, mistakes at that point will be final, with mortal consequences)

Does identifying work though? What's stopping an intruder from doing that? I just don't see how no-knock warrants like this are supposed to work.

I just don't see how no-knock warrants like this are supposed to work.

This IS how they work. The police kick down your door, sometimes lob in a few stun grenades, then charge in like they're Rambo. Violence is a feature, not a bug, of this system.

The reason no-knocks are used in drug cases is, ostensibly, to prevent destruction of evidence. But, police have come to rely on them (along with armored SWAT teams) for damn near ALL warrants, not just know violent drug offenders.

It's high time we banned no-knocks. It's high time we introduced a higher bar to arrest-via-home-invasion. It's high time we held judges accountable for signing warrants. And, probably biggest of all, high time to end the war on drugs as it currently exists.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#230

Post by jacobush » Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

OGWhales wrote: post #213

jacobush wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's precedent to say its legal to return fire.

As an intruder?

I can't really remember the case, but there was a standoff where a (white) person returned fire against law enforcement after they shot his dog. In the end I think one law enforcement officer was killed on one side, and that guys wife, child and dog was on the other side.

There was no punishment for the killing of the LEO.