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Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

usatoday.com

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Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#71

Post by JamesBarney »

newacct583 wrote: post #36
rayiner wrote: post #7

USA Today has the best coverage of this I’ve seen. The NYT coverage of this is awful: https://www.nytimes.com/article/breonna-taylor-police.html A key fact is that the police shot Taylor after her boyfriend shot at the police, thinking they were intruders. While he was fully entitled to do that, the NYT doesn’t believe in gun rights so that’s a messy fact. To make the victim seem more sympathetic, the narrative under…

> Were they not supposed to shoot back when Taylor’s boyfriend shot at them? How about: they should be held responsible for the preventable death of this woman in a situation they directly and deliberately created? Is that not the problem? I don't think anyone is demanding a first degree murder conviction here. They didn't walk in with the intent to kill her. But they sure as shit did kill her, and it's all their fau…

Is the bad guy a couple of cops who we hold to the impossible standard of not returning fire? Or are no-knock warrants the bad guy which routinely cause deaths for the sole purpose of keeping some drugs from being flushed down the toilet?

Because one of these is very easy to fix and would 100% mean Taylor would still be alive. The other would be super difficult to fix and who knows if it would have saved her life.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#72

Post by bagels »

hkai wrote: post #67
e40 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently canceled my NYT subscription over the Tom Cotton op-ed. Really glad I did. WaPo and ProPublica have my money now.

May I ask why? I assume this is because many people think it is better that a left-leaning newspaper doesn't publish right-wing opinion pieces, but I would think that this creates a "bubble" and prevents readers from challenging their own opinions. A reduced version of this question would be: if Hitler/Xi/Kim were to publish an opinion piece in NYT, should they reject it or should they publish it?

For me it was not that it was a right/left opinion piece.

It was a piece calling for the government to murder protesters which the editor solicited and published without reading. Nor was any context or commentary provided indicating such.

(edit) You can also see, now, after the backlash, NYT agrees that it probably shouldn't have been published.

Based on that review, we have concluded that the essay fell short of our standards and should not have been published.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/opinion/tom-cotton-protes...

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#73

Post by raverbashing »

jessaustin wrote: post #43
codezero wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

context: I am a super liberal hippy. I'm really left, like, crazy. I paused reading your comment at "instead you need to go down several" because I wanted to test my current knowledge of this incident: almost nothing, I know, hard to believe, given the claim at the start. (I've been under a lot of stress at work, it's OK, I'm fine, thanks for asking though :) ) So I read the article... Here is the first paragraph und…

I can imagine a scenario where I think many objective individuals would agree a no-knock warrant would make sense, so I can agree that they might be useful. There is a danger in this tabula rasa sort of thinking. If we think only of imaginary scenarios and "in theory this is how it works", we're likely to ignore the very real consequences of this awful practice. Ms Taylor isn't the first person to die in this situati…

Wow, that "nightmare scenario" looks more like the exact thing that needs to be flushed down the toilet.

Either the amount shouldn't matter or you shouldn't be able to flush it all at once (also, as if "plumbing forensics" didn't exist)

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#74

Post by codezero »

JamesBarney wrote: post #65
codezero wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What should the NYT have said, and what forms your opinion of how NYT readers interpret an article like this? Personally, I don't think I could even get anecdata on people I know based on their primary news source.

> After a brief confrontation, they fired several shots, striking her at least eight times. To Breonna's boyfriend fearing for his safety fired several shots at the plain-clothed men who had just broken into his home. These police officers returned fired, striking Breonna at least eight times. When most people read "Kenneth got into a brief confrontation with John. John then fired four rounds at Kenneth." they will a…

That’s fair. I think there are a lot of ways to interpret how one person or another can... interpret this... with that said, my stance has been clear on the balance of power in this kind of situation.

Your home, your legally owned gun, your panic and chaos, you shoot. I would do the same, I would not be surprised that others did the same.

Expectation of professionalism, and de-escalation is on the regulated authority with power and accountability. If they were well trained, and made a calculated risk for an important case, they may be justified. From all that I can find, it seems clear to me that the police acted unprofessionally, and anything past that is not really a factor until that unprofessional behavior is addressed.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#75

Post by dagmx »

hkai wrote: post #67
e40 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently canceled my NYT subscription over the Tom Cotton op-ed. Really glad I did. WaPo and ProPublica have my money now.

May I ask why? I assume this is because many people think it is better that a left-leaning newspaper doesn't publish right-wing opinion pieces, but I would think that this creates a "bubble" and prevents readers from challenging their own opinions. A reduced version of this question would be: if Hitler/Xi/Kim were to publish an opinion piece in NYT, should they reject it or should they publish it?

Vox actually covers this really well https://www.vox.com/2020/6/5/21280425/new-york-times-tom-cot...

Basically it boils down to:

* it was a fairly dangerous opinion with fabrications that weren’t vetted by the editorial team

* it was disrespectful and dangerous to the safety of their employees of color. The safety of people should not be a partisan issue

* it compromised the reporting abilities of other arms of the NYT

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#76

Post by freshhawk »

hkai wrote: post #67
e40 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently canceled my NYT subscription over the Tom Cotton op-ed. Really glad I did. WaPo and ProPublica have my money now.

May I ask why? I assume this is because many people think it is better that a left-leaning newspaper doesn't publish right-wing opinion pieces, but I would think that this creates a "bubble" and prevents readers from challenging their own opinions. A reduced version of this question would be: if Hitler/Xi/Kim were to publish an opinion piece in NYT, should they reject it or should they publish it?

Obviously you reject it, and you publish a story about how this person wanted to publish an opinion piece advocating war crimes, because that's the part that is news.

Also, this is so obvious, to so many parts of the political spectrum that pretending to not understand it is "telling on yourself" in modern parlance.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#77

Post by codezero »

eitland wrote: post #66
codezero wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

context: I am a super liberal hippy. I'm really left, like, crazy. I paused reading your comment at "instead you need to go down several" because I wanted to test my current knowledge of this incident: almost nothing, I know, hard to believe, given the claim at the start. (I've been under a lot of stress at work, it's OK, I'm fine, thanks for asking though :) ) So I read the article... Here is the first paragraph und…

@dang: could we have a commend option in addition to flag? This comment, and a number of other comments from both sides in this thread proves that it is possible to have a good discussion on hot topics, and I live that as I feel I have now understood a lot more not only about what happened but also how it could happen. edit: changed "can we get" to "could we have" to make it clear that this is not a feature request b…

You’re getting downvoted. Welcome to hacker news, this must not be a surprise.

Thank you brave soldier. I appreciate your comment. I don’t care about HN karma, even if I do, but your comment is meaningful to me above an upvote.

I’m a “new” manager, and I am a terrible communicator (and/or I have impostor syndrome). I’ve been trying desperately to improve how I communicate personally and professionally.

This thread is maybe a perverse exercise in that, so your comment is great feedback. Thanks. Hang in there.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#78

Post by eitland »

GuiA wrote: post #68
eitland wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@dang: could we have a commend option in addition to flag? This comment, and a number of other comments from both sides in this thread proves that it is possible to have a good discussion on hot topics, and I live that as I feel I have now understood a lot more not only about what happened but also how it could happen. edit: changed "can we get" to "could we have" to make it clear that this is not a feature request b…

You have a commend button, it's the little up arrow to the left of the comment.

Nope, not the same. Ordinary upvotes hasn't had visible results since around the time dang took over from pg.

Commend, if accepted by mods, should result in a visual difference in the display of the post somehow opposite of how flags works: pin to top, really small star or something. Maybe a list of exceptionally good answers in the users the profile.

I was once "caught" for doing something correctly that all teenagers tend to fail on (technical, trivial thing) and ten years later since then I realized I had always got it right after that day when someone told me that they appreciated it.

I don't know if this is a good idea, but I wanted to mention it.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#79

Post by freshhawk »

bagels wrote: post #72
hkai wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask why? I assume this is because many people think it is better that a left-leaning newspaper doesn't publish right-wing opinion pieces, but I would think that this creates a "bubble" and prevents readers from challenging their own opinions. A reduced version of this question would be: if Hitler/Xi/Kim were to publish an opinion piece in NYT, should they reject it or should they publish it?

For me it was not that it was a right/left opinion piece. It was a piece calling for the government to murder protesters which the editor solicited and published without reading. Nor was any context or commentary provided indicating such. (edit) You can also see, now, after the backlash, NYT agrees that it probably shouldn't have been published. Based on that review, we have concluded that the essay fell short of our…

Do you actually believe the editor didn't read it? That is a pretty blatant and obvious lie to control the fallout.

Re: Breonna Taylor case: Louisville police nearly blank incident report

#80

Post by bilbo0s »

alkibiades wrote: post #69

and not a single shred of evidence it was racially motivated rather than an accident having to do with the fact that her boyfriend shot a police officer

Just, Devil's Advocate, but do you think the accident could have been the police kicking in the door of the wrong apartment? The boyfriend shooting at the police does not seem accidental, nor does it seem in any way wrong to my mind. If the officers had kicked in the door of the right apartment, the boyfriend would not have tried to take the officers out. Again, a completely appropriate and well reasoned response in my own opinion.

If you enter private property forcibly, you should expect to be shot at. If you shoot back while having forcibly gained illegal entry to private property, you've committed a crime. It seems fairly open and shut to me. The only hold up is police and court system corruption along with a healthy dose of good old fashioned racism. Again, just my opinion.

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