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Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

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Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#141

Post by momokoko »

kemiller2002 wrote: post #3

This is sound advice. You have a significant amount of control over people's lives as a manager, and that should be treated with a level of respect. You have no idea how people feel, and it is quite possible that someone you manage doesn't know where they stand with you. At times that is more than enough to cause them stress and even convince them to look elsewhere. Work is stressful enough, and you don't need to add…

> is quite possible that someone you manage doesn't know where they stand with you

Higher level performers tend to disproportionately believe then need to improve so they tend to take group jokes or threats of termination much more seriously than underperformers.

Be very very careful making groups statements and jokes about performance and firings. It’s a fast track to losing high performers who leave because they start to believe they are not wanted and not doing a good job.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#143

Post by Non24Throw »

Early in my career, a manager once had me repeat to him that I would be terminated if I failed to do X, like I was a 5-year-old.

X was referring to a technical implementation detail that he had zero understanding of. He read something in a blog post I guess.

My reaction was to act like it was a fun joke or something. But inside, I absolutely loathed him every second of every day until I quit, and now I take great satisfaction knowing that I’ve surpassed him and would never do a thing to help his stagnating career. (In other words, I’m holding an extremely petty and lasting grudge.)

But my point is, he probably thought I was fine with all his joking. I always laughed.

To expand on the article’s point, I think the biggest thing young managers don’t understand is that people are going to be insincere to you as a basic showing of respect and a basic desire for career preservation. They’re going to smile and appear to enjoy you and laugh at your jokes and seem ok with everything, much moreso than they otherwise would. So don’t make the mistake of using their reactions to define your boundaries of what’s acceptable or what’s funny, because it’s not a typical relationship, and you will invariably believe that you are funnier than you are and that a wider range of unacceptable behaviors are acceptable.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#144

Post by undefined1 »

sudhirj wrote: post #24

The basic rule of comedy, or making jokes, which is amateur comedy, is that you always punch up. It’s funny when you say “ha! you’re fired!” to your boss, but never when you say it to someone you can actually fire. Same reason why parents (should) never joke about punishment or disciplinary action with their kids - when you have power and authority you also have a responsibility not to belittle it. People will take y…

I know you're specifying amateur comedy, but it's not so clear what's up or down. A lot of people think Dave Chappelle punches down, but is he really?[1]

"Comedy is subjective, and it's offensive, it really is. And people are making these imaginary rules, like, 'Comedy can punch up, but it can't punch down.' No, comedy punches down too sometimes, sorry. You don't make up the rules for my business without consulting a few of us. This is just people deciding these random rules about my business, and they're not even the funny people at their office, probably." - Jerry Seinfeld

"Who decides what’s punching up and punching down? I have a routine about these comedians writing articles in the Guardian, trying to set the rules of comedy, insisting that we should never punch down. And I say sometimes you’ve got to punch down." - Ricky Gervais

Also, it's important to understand what the actual target of the joke is. Chris Rock sums it up as, "Talk about what they do, not what they are"[2]. I think that's a useful rule of thumb.

1. https://arcdigital.media/dave-chappelle-punches-up-55dfe906e...

2. https://youtu.be/OKY6BGcx37k?t=2533

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#145

Post by city41 »

subhro wrote: post #19
turdnagel wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? People make mistakes. They might try to break the tension by cracking a joke without realizing the effect it will have.

Yes I did. The point I was trying to make was, this really shouldn’t come to anyone naturally. It is like writing a blog post about not bullying anyone. People still do it, but I think those people are psychologically unstable, should be isolated and needs help.

In the context of one team member gets promoted to manage the rest of the team, I can see how this type of "joke" could happen. If the team was really close and everyone was friends, it's easy to keep the friend mindset and make what you think is just a dumb joke without really thinking it through.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#146

Post by tinyhouse »

asadlionpk wrote: post #133
tinyhouse wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean not to joke about it in front of other people? I agree of course. But between you two? seriously... A married couple should be able to talk freely, including about things they don't like. No need to create policies in advance like it's a work relationship between employee/manager. I would worry if my married life looked like a work relationship.

There always are policies in every relationship. Make peace with it.

Of course. Each couple creates their own policy based on what they like or don't like. As opposed to work relationship.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#147

Post by sdoowpilihp »

This is great advice. It is cast in the first sentence as narrow advice, and in some ways it is. In the last paragraph though, it is illustrated that the advice generalizes incredibly well, and that's the part that sticks with me. Recognize the power your words carry, be empathetic to how those affect people.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#148

Post by olau »

greenshackle2 wrote: post #123
DevX101 wrote: post #33

While we're on this topic, managers don't invite your direct reports for one-on-one meeting out of the blue with no agenda. I've heard multiple people tell me they assume they're about to be fired.

This goes for HR too. HR at an old job invited me and a colleague to a meeting with a nondescript title. I thought my colleague must have some issue with me. But no, they wanted us to draw our vision for the company with colorful markers.

Haha, reading this made my day.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#150

Post by [deleted] »

esotericn wrote: post #63

The reverse situation is interesting. "I mean, you could just sack me if it goes wrong" is a personal go-to. Built an emergency fund at age 20 and stopped giving a fuck, it's just business. Obligatory "I'm not American, we don't die on the street if we break our leg whilst unemployed here" I guess. I find dark humour amusing in general because it's just like, yeah, you actually could wake up tomorrow with a brick in…

[deleted]
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