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Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

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Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#111

Post by Kronen »

jkubicek wrote: post #18
bzb3 wrote: post #4

Someone who can't take a joke like the one that's mentioned in the article is liable to be problematic in some other capacity anyway.

“Cant’t take a joke” is a terrible excuse for making people uncomfortable. People are sensitive, impostor syndrome is extremely common. The people who work for you are always going to be worried about their job at some level. Don’t take advantage of your power to make a joke that is, at best, not funny and at worst incredibly anxiety-inducing.

Don't generalize, not all people are mentally weak and get uncomfortable or offended that easily even when that's the trend in the 21st century.

A manager, like everyone else, should know who to make a joke to, and he will get closer to those employees.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#112

Post by rsweeney21 »

I know the tech community likes to hate on company policies and bureaucracy, but this is exactly why you need SOME rules - to protect employees from bad managers.

If you have a process in place that managers must follow in order to terminate an employee, employees don't have to be afraid of tasteless jokes about firing. If there is a process that involves the employee (like a PIP), you also don't have to be afraid that you'll be blindsided with a termination.

Same thing applies to "unlimited" vacation. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but when you get rid of your vacation policy, you are transferring all handling of time-off to your front line managers. My experience with unlimited vacation at Netflix was poor because I had a manager that made little comments here and there that made me feel guilty about taking time off. If I had days off that I accrued then I would know exactly what I'm entitled to take.

I wrote a blog post about why we got rid of our unlimited vacation policy at our company.

https://www.facetdev.com/blog/posts/why-we-ditched-our-unlim...

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#113

Post by Cthulhu_ »

gowld wrote: post #52
_gfrc wrote: post #14

This is along the lines of "Ha, taking half the day off, are we?" when somebody leaves a little bit earlier than usual. It sounds like (just) a bad joke, but it has severe consequences for your working relationship. I get that it's tempting to make jokes when you start managing for your old team members. Just accept the fact that you've switched positions and that your relationship will change. It will only make it m…

One of the few memories I have of my old job was my grandmanager saying "leaving early today?" As I passed them in the hall at 5pm.

Mine was "Going for a piss boy?", the guy was a somewhat crude TV / magazine celebrity of sorts, I was working as a developer on their website at the time. It was one of those people who probably could fire people on the spot if he didn't like them.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#114

Post by myth_drannon »

ikeyany wrote: post #49
myth_drannon wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CEO of one of my previous companies at his birthday celebration joked at one of the employees that if he doesn't sing Happy Birthday song louder he will fire him. And this is not the worst that has come out of his mouth.

So how was working at Dunder Mifflin?

Nope, small company in Montreal.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#115

Post by rco8786 »

dudul wrote: post #42
kemiller2002 wrote: post #3

This is sound advice. You have a significant amount of control over people's lives as a manager, and that should be treated with a level of respect. You have no idea how people feel, and it is quite possible that someone you manage doesn't know where they stand with you. At times that is more than enough to cause them stress and even convince them to look elsewhere. Work is stressful enough, and you don't need to add…

Do you have significant amount of control? Maybe I've been lucky to be part of mostly healthy organizations, but even managers have to justify/explain decisions. Either be for termination, compensation adjustment, reassigning to a different team, etc. I always had to document and explain why I thought an employee deserved a raise, or should not get a bonus, etc. Even as a director with ~20 reports I don't have unlimi…

Yea of course but the employee generally has no visibility into those processes, especially when it comes to job termination.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#116

Post by reitanqild »

aketchum wrote: post #72
subhro wrote: post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

Slightly related. My father owned a restaurant when I was growing up and employed local high school students as dishwashers. I was young, probably around 12 and I was at a summer camp that our dishwasher at the time was also attending and I made a joke to him about getting him fired. Ill never forget how mad my father was with me when he found out and how sternly he reprimanded me. He stressed early on with me that w…

Thanks for saying this. I'm thankful for people like your father.

I grew up on the other side of that power dynamic and it still affects me in a number of unpleasant and sometimes crippling ways.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#117

Post by tinyhouse »

jerf wrote: post #36

Similarly, marriage protip: Don't joke about divorces. Even if you think your partner can handle it. Mine can and we still don't do it, as policy. It's a known policy, too; we mentioned it to each other before (briefly, a long time ago, not as some big event). This is certainly far from "the one key to a happy marriage!", but it's a brick in the house. It generally fits into the larger social IQ element of thinking a…

You mean not to joke about it in front of other people? I agree of course. But between you two? seriously... A married couple should be able to talk freely, including about things they don't like. No need to create policies in advance like it's a work relationship between employee/manager. I would worry if my married life looked like a work relationship.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#118

Post by tareqak »

bzb3 wrote: post #46
normalnorm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is more or less universally recognized that jokes are only funny if they are punching upwards. Someone in a position of power making jokes about using that power against someone with less power is more akin to bullying.

Your manager is not your enemy. Your manager making a joke is not kicking you down, he's trying to breed camaraderie.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_road_to_hell_is_paved_with...

Most of the Evil in This World Is Done by People with Good Intentions - https://quoteinvestigator.com/2019/12/19/intentions/

I would argue that breeding camaraderie requires empathy and understanding with other person as opposed to blindly projecting one’s sense of humor upon another.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#119

Post by mc32 »

blowfish721 wrote: post #96
gowld wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the few memories I have of my old job was my grandmanager saying "leaving early today?" As I passed them in the hall at 5pm.

At my current position it's quite usual for my manager to ask why I'm still at the office when it's 3:30PM on a friday. One of the reasons I'm still working where I am.

If I were manager I would not even imply that I’m time aware either way, unless there is an ongoing issue (someone staying too late often), (or someone who is not putting in an effort). Otherwise why even bring up your consciousness of time? It signals you’re tracking it one way or another.

Edit: for addressing burnout, overwork, etc., for me personally I would start with bringing up the issue in team meetings.

Do we have enough resources, does anyone feel they’ve got too many tasks; remind everyone (no singling out) that we’re not here to be superheroes, we’re here to work in exchange for compensation and that you need a good work-life balance in order to perform well at work. If it continues to be an issue after several proclamations, then I could address individuals one on one.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#120

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Oof; while not a manager, I have made the joke to various people who were peers in terms of job description, but I had been at the company for years while they had only been there for months. They took it as intended though, I've always been the clown type.
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