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Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

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Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#31
post #15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps managers who can't see they're on shaky ground making such a joke are liable to be problematic in some other capacity.

You are right. Nothing worse than a manager with a sense of humour. That ruins companies.

It is more or less universally recognized that jokes are only funny if they are punching upwards. Someone in a position of power making jokes about using that power against someone with less power is more akin to bullying.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#32
I've had a manager who made it work. It was deliberately a running joke, it was one of a family of running jokes with similar delivery techniques, it was never aimed at any new hires, and most of this manager's direct reports "fired" him as well, on a regular basis.

It is reasonable to regard even this particular situation with caution, but I mention it anyway, to highlight the patterns that did make it work, that you can regard the absence of these patterns in your own situation.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#34
post #4

Someone who can't take a joke like the one that's mentioned in the article is liable to be problematic in some other capacity anyway.

Yes, they may take other jokes wrong, but this probably isn't the metric you need to optimize as a manager. And it probably isn't a very good proxy for whatever that metric might be. This is to say nothing of worsening that metric by stressing out your employees.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#36
Similarly, marriage protip: Don't joke about divorces. Even if you think your partner can handle it. Mine can and we still don't do it, as policy. It's a known policy, too; we mentioned it to each other before (briefly, a long time ago, not as some big event).

This is certainly far from "the one key to a happy marriage!", but it's a brick in the house.

It generally fits into the larger social IQ element of thinking about the worst way someone may take something you communicate. This is a particularly easy place to see how you may have felt it was a light-hearted joke, but someone else could easily take it entirely seriously, or as a passive-aggressive "ha ha only serious".

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#37
post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

Did you read the article? People make mistakes. They might try to break the tension by cracking a joke without realizing the effect it will have.

Don't make jokes unless you're 100% damn sure people will react the right way. To quote J Scalzi: "The failure mode of clever is 'asshole'".

https://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/06/16/the-failure-state-of-...

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#38
post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

As a non manager, from arm chair, when presented as an abstract concept, I can see it seeming incredulous.

The whole point however is that in the moment, in the context, with familiar people, as a new manager, there will be part of your brain that says "Do this". The advice is not even targeting the jerk-manager, who is ignorant and boisterous and does this consistently. It is targeting a manager in transition who may do this accidentally, as a misfiring instinct. It's the stereotypical best man / maid of honours making an inappropriate joke at a wedding with best intentions... but consequences.

To your question therefore:

Yes, there frequently is that part of one's brain for new team leads in some situations.

No, don't do it.

FWIW: To those taking a cynical view on such articles - There are any number of things, managementy or technical, that seem obvious when written down... but still get done wrong any day of the week :). In related but different context: my previous transition from hands-on to architect was similarly enlightening - all the designs and solutions that seemed so obvious and easy when presented with finished document; were so much more intimidating when faced with a blank slate, an empty sheer where any design pattern, infrastructure architecture can go :O.

It's scary to be a new architect, it's scary to be a new manager, and simple, actionable, clearly-good advice can be a good way to gain comfort and confidence, and provide a starting point to build on.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#39
post #5

I am really surprised one has to write a blog post about this. I am not a manager, but here is a question for managers, have you or anyone you know, joked about firing someone? In my opinion, that would be incredibly cruel and stupid.

The CEO of one of my previous companies at his birthday celebration joked at one of the employees that if he doesn't sing Happy Birthday song louder he will fire him.

And this is not the worst that has come out of his mouth.

Re: Advice to new managers: don't joke about firing people

#40
> "They try to break the tension with self deprecation and poking fun at the newfound responsibility. That 'haha I’m the bureaucrat now what a joke this is' attitude"

this bit is more insightful than the title. there was even a friends (and many others) episode about this.

the power imbalance is a real concern, and makes the concerns and empathies complicated, but as with all relational issues, it goes both ways. be understanding both ways. be resilient both ways. it doesn't mean cut off and throw away a piece of your soul to fit the ideal of corporate sterility.

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