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Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#61

Post by nwienert »

WetBurd wrote: post #57
stellar678 wrote: post #38

It would be great if people writing articles like this (I hesitate to call them journalists these days) could take the time to provide more context. According to the county dashboard, Alameda County had 2,564 cases on May 20, 2 days after Tesla reopened: https://ac-hcsa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html... With a population of 1,671,000, that means about 0.15% of Alameda County residents had been diagnosed…

The original article is by a writer of the Washington Post. If this doesn't count as journalism, I struggle to find examples that do. The journalist spoke with two workers within the production facility. "One of the workers said a supervisor confirmed two positive cases to a group at the Fremont-based seat assembly facility" This is an example of just one supervisor confirming two positive cases. It is likely that th…

We’re they confirmed not positive before it reopened?

Otherwise, this literally means nothing.

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#62

Post by heavyset_go »

catalogia wrote: post #45
heavyset_go wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless our descendants own those robots or there is a massive shift in who controls productive property, our lineages will die off once they're made permanently redundant and shut out from what those machines produce.

> ancestors (Descendants; ancestors are those in the past.)

Good catch, fixed.

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#63

Post by twblalock »

Shivetya wrote: post #55
Google234 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious if you think Tesla should still be closed now?

to the point that any business should be. as in, if they take reasonable precautions I am all for any business being opened. it is far easier to contain the issue in a factory floor than the supermarket many will be in on their way home. that is the lunacy of the closings, they lack logic, as in rules being used and implied risk against other types of businesses opening have been glossed over for those already deemed…

> that is the lunacy of the closings, they lack logic, as in rules being used and implied risk against other types of businesses opening have been glossed over for those already deemed essential.

Musk was one of the few business owners to seriously push back against local authorities who made unjustifiable restrictions. More people would be grateful to him for doing that if he wasn't so ridiculous in other aspects of his public life.

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#64

Post by sigstoat »

RandomGuyDTB wrote: post #33
trhway wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a society where the work needed to live a good start would be to pay well for that work.

Exactly. > There's something wrong with our civilization when some people have to go in for the increased risk to their health for $15+ just to feed their families while we comfortably and safely sit at home getting paid multiples of that and ride that great stock market. This isn't a jab at workers needing to go back to work , this is a jab at the fact that we treat retail workers like garbage when in reality our so…

> Somebody has to do them. Why are sanitation workers getting paid less than stock brokers when sanitation workers are doing objectively harder work and are at far more risk (especially now)?

do you propose to pay sanitation workers hundreds of thousands of dollars a piece, in which case i can't imagine how city budgets will survive, or forcibly lower the salaries of financial workers to below that of the sanitation workers? in which case we'll have little to no financial services anymore.

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#65

Post by camjohnson26 »

WetBurd wrote: post #50

It should probably be pointed out that the original article came from the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/06/09/tesla-f... Furthermore it is a extremely strong coincidence that this article comes out five days after Musk seemingly randomly attacks Amazon: https://nationalpost.com/technology/elon-musk-amazon-feud-je... It certainly matches Musk's regular habit of lashing out at his crit…

It was completely predictable, one of the biggest TSLAQ voices on twitter called this a few days ago in a high profile way. Whenever a news outlet reaches out to Musk for comment on a negative story he goes on the attack.

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#66

Post by jlebar »

Shivetya wrote: post #55
Google234 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious if you think Tesla should still be closed now?

to the point that any business should be. as in, if they take reasonable precautions I am all for any business being opened. it is far easier to contain the issue in a factory floor than the supermarket many will be in on their way home. that is the lunacy of the closings, they lack logic, as in rules being used and implied risk against other types of businesses opening have been glossed over for those already deemed…

> if they take reasonable precautions

Who decides what's reasonable? To me, "reasonable" might mean, "precautions that minimize unnecessary risk to human morbidity and mortality". Even if we were to agree on this, what do "minimize" and "unnecessary" mean? And how do we take into account second-order effects, like, maybe my workplace is primarily young people and there's relatively low risk of long-term harm, but my employees might spread the virus in the community...

> it is far easier to contain the issue in a factory floor than the supermarket

Although this claim has some logic to it, I'm not sure it is actually true. See the outbreaks at meatpacking plants, https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/06/08/cache-valley-providin..., https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/08/us/meat-proce...

That's the thing about this novel virus. There is a lot of uncertainty.

These are all hard questions. I'm not pretending that health officials have uniformly made the right call, or even good calls. I am saying that if you think it's as simple as stating the policy "let anyone taking reasonable precautions open for business", I have a bridge to sell you.

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#67

Post by stcredzero »

WetBurd wrote: post #57
stellar678 wrote: post #38

It would be great if people writing articles like this (I hesitate to call them journalists these days) could take the time to provide more context. According to the county dashboard, Alameda County had 2,564 cases on May 20, 2 days after Tesla reopened: https://ac-hcsa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html... With a population of 1,671,000, that means about 0.15% of Alameda County residents had been diagnosed…

The original article is by a writer of the Washington Post. If this doesn't count as journalism, I struggle to find examples that do. The journalist spoke with two workers within the production facility. "One of the workers said a supervisor confirmed two positive cases to a group at the Fremont-based seat assembly facility" This is an example of just one supervisor confirming two positive cases. It is likely that th…

If this doesn't count as journalism, I struggle to find examples that do.

I also struggle to find examples that do count, nowadays. Most of what I see is "narrative pushing."

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#68

Post by mistermann »

pathseeker wrote: post #47
stellar678 wrote: post #38

It would be great if people writing articles like this (I hesitate to call them journalists these days) could take the time to provide more context. According to the county dashboard, Alameda County had 2,564 cases on May 20, 2 days after Tesla reopened: https://ac-hcsa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html... With a population of 1,671,000, that means about 0.15% of Alameda County residents had been diagnosed…

>Why the breathless article about 2 cases? Because articles are now written to confirm people's preconceived notions. Articles that confirm your biases are more likely to be shared than articles which don't.

I honestly wonder if this writing style is conscious and intentional though, or rather un(sub)conscious and accidental.

Look at comments in forums...in that case, people have no profit motive, although they do have a "get upvotes" motive (so, virtue signalling is a legit motive, to some degree, but one notion to consider is that people very often no longer discriminate between that which is concrete factual and that which is inferred (imagined) "factual". If you look for it, you'll see that this behaviour is everywhere.

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#69

Post by matz1 »

admax88q wrote: post #42
axxxxxe0909 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could not agree more. I do not understand why this is not more widely understood.

It's different if a company re-opened against guidelines and is not considered "essential." Is making a few more cars really that essential? Different companies have different roles to play. And if shutting down non-essentials can reduce the rate of infection, it improve the outcome for _everyone_ afterwards.

All business are essential.

>it improve the outcome for _everyone_ afterwards

Certainly not for the people who are forced to shutdown.

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#70

Post by twblalock »

jlebar wrote: post #66
Shivetya wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to the point that any business should be. as in, if they take reasonable precautions I am all for any business being opened. it is far easier to contain the issue in a factory floor than the supermarket many will be in on their way home. that is the lunacy of the closings, they lack logic, as in rules being used and implied risk against other types of businesses opening have been glossed over for those already deemed…

> if they take reasonable precautions Who decides what's reasonable? To me, "reasonable" might mean, "precautions that minimize unnecessary risk to human morbidity and mortality". Even if we were to agree on this, what do "minimize" and "unnecessary" mean? And how do we take into account second-order effects, like, maybe my workplace is primarily young people and there's relatively low risk of long-term harm, but my…

> I'm not pretending that health officials have uniformly made the right call, or even good calls.

Good, then don't pretend that it's wrong to push back when health officials inconsistently apply their rules and cannot justify them when challenged.

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