Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened • Hacker News Board

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#41

Post by Traster » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:07 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #23

heavyset_go wrote: post #10

Somewhere in Musk's calculus, he must have determined just how many people can get sick and die without it being too much of a PR problem.

> he must have determined just how many people can get sick and die without it being too much of a PR problem I'd guess he also has some demographic data on his workers. If a substantial fraction are healthier and/or less susceptible than the population, it stands to reason that his plant should open before the broader economy.

Yes, I'm absolutely sure he went to his HR department and did a personal investigation into every one of his employees, all the people they live with, any family members they're caring for during lock down, the demographics of all the people they bump into during their commute, when shopping, everyone they bump into during their spare time and made careful decision to start tweeting Free America Now!.

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#42

Post by admax88q » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:07 PM UTC

axxxxxe0909 wrote: post #31

_skel wrote: post #22

You could pick any large company that reopened and find instances of employees who have the virus. Singling out Tesla is good for clickbait, but why should the Tesla factory stay closed when bars and restaurants in California are allowed to open? This is the new normal. We can't stay in lockdown forever. Jobs deemed "non-essential" by white collar professionals comfortably working from home are pretty essential to th…

I could not agree more. I do not understand why this is not more widely understood.

It's different if a company re-opened against guidelines and is not considered "essential." Is making a few more cars really that essential?

Different companies have different roles to play. And if shutting down non-essentials can reduce the rate of infection, it improve the outcome for _everyone_ afterwards.

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#43

Post by heavyset_go » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:08 PM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #25

heavyset_go wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless our descendants own those robots or there is a massive shift in who controls productive property, our lineages will die off once they're made permanently redundant and shut out from what those machines produce.

Almost certainly. Thing is, as countries develop, the birth rate drops off a cliff. Canada's already at 1.5 births per woman. The US is only slightly higher. As we make more robots, we'll make less humans. Society will be forced to become dramatically different.

We already have an abundance of resources, like food and land, yet we don't efficiently allocate them such that they don't go to waste, leave people hungry or leave people homeless. The only reason people without significant assets can access food or land is because they're able to trade their time for money. People who can't trade their time for money currently go hungry and become homeless.

This is why I say that unless there is a significant change in control of productive property, when that productive property deprecates human labor, those who rely on trading their time for money will be in dire situations.

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#44

Post by the_duke » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:08 PM UTC

KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #40

Here's an example of how workers were pressured to come into work: The state approved Tesla to work. It's the county that is concerned. But if you decline to come to work, just know you will not receive benefits and you will be unable to apply for unemployment since we have work available. We can't force you to come in if you don't feel comfortable. https://twitter.com/PlainSite/status/1270110558071566337

> PlainSite affiliates may hold long/short investments in companies discussed. Not investment advice.

Interesting account there ...

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#45

Post by catalogia » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:09 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #12

arcticbull wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're quickly approaching that. A few generations from now it'll just be the robots - and us watching.

Unless our descendants own those robots or there is a massive shift in who controls productive property, our lineages will die off once they're made permanently redundant and shut out from what those machines produce.

> ancestors

(Descendants; ancestors are those in the past.)

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#46

Post by andys627 » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:09 PM UTC

Google234 wrote: post #35

andys627 wrote: post #6

> Musk went as far as to dare authorities to arrest him. Is this referring to this tweet ( https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1259945593805221891 ) that said "Tesla is restarting production today against Alameda County rules. I will be on the line with everyone else. If anyone is arrested, I ask that it only be me." ?

I’m curious if you think Tesla should still be closed now?

I'm not sure. It would be good to prevent spread of disease. But also, Tesla's mission (https://www.tesla.com/about) is "to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy." This is a generational timescale business - in Musk's mind an extra 1.5% of population dying is probably worth it - especially if the alternative is Tesla dies.

Edit - here's an interesting question - how many lives is accelerating the world's transition to sustainable energy worth? Climate change is surely going to cost lives. Tesla also isn't really the best solution in my mind. I think we should all live in denser cities where you can walk, bike, and use transit.

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#47

Post by pathseeker » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:09 PM UTC

stellar678 wrote: post #38

It would be great if people writing articles like this (I hesitate to call them journalists these days) could take the time to provide more context. According to the county dashboard, Alameda County had 2,564 cases on May 20, 2 days after Tesla reopened: https://ac-hcsa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html... With a population of 1,671,000, that means about 0.15% of Alameda County residents had been diagnosed…

>Why the breathless article about 2 cases?

Because articles are now written to confirm people's preconceived notions. Articles that confirm your biases are more likely to be shared than articles which don't.

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#48

Post by twblalock » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:09 PM UTC

xkjkls wrote: post #30

_skel wrote: post #22

You could pick any large company that reopened and find instances of employees who have the virus. Singling out Tesla is good for clickbait, but why should the Tesla factory stay closed when bars and restaurants in California are allowed to open? This is the new normal. We can't stay in lockdown forever. Jobs deemed "non-essential" by white collar professionals comfortably working from home are pretty essential to th…

Restaurants and bars in specific areas with specific precautions are allowed to re-open. Musk re-opened his factory against the advice of local officials.

And yet the local officials decided not to forcibly close the factory. They could have looked good on TV taking Musk away in handcuffs, and it certainly would have made a lot of people happy, but they didn't. There is a reason for that.

Ultimately, local authorities couldn't make a compelling case that opening the Tesla factory was risky enough to justify intervening. They had already allowed a number of other businesses to open that were more dangerous in terms of covid transmission than the Tesla factory and could also be called "non-essential". Tesla was taking the same precautions that local authorities recommended for other businesses they allowed to open.

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#49

Post by pathseeker » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:10 PM UTC

admax88q wrote: post #21

t-writescode wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean where Musk is basically saying “please don’t hold my demands of my workers against them. Punish me instead, please?”

Ah yes, there's the standard HN mental gymnastics to defend Musk.

Accusing people of defending Musk without addressing any of the actual statements violates this site's guidelines.

Re: Fremont Tesla workers tested positive for coronavirus days after plant reopened

#50

Post by WetBurd » Tue, Jun 09, 2020, 7:12 PM UTC

It should probably be pointed out that the original article came from the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/06/09/tesla-f...

Furthermore it is a extremely strong coincidence that this article comes out five days after Musk seemingly randomly attacks Amazon: https://nationalpost.com/technology/elon-musk-amazon-feud-je...

It certainly matches Musk's regular habit of lashing out at his critiques...