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Chan Zuckerberg Initiative scientists: FB’s practices ‘antithetical’ to mission

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Re: Chan Zuckerberg Initiative scientists: FB’s practices ‘antithetical’ to mission

#51
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Verge cites WSJ. WSJ mentions "a presentation" but doesn't include it. What little they cite is not very substantive. "more and more divisive content" this is vague and omnious, and not even very likely. These algorithms will reach an equilibrium. WSJ further mentions that "some proposed changes would have disproportionately affected conservative users and publishers" To me this is a sign that the presentation wa…

You gotta be kidding me. You know as well as I do that we're never going to get comprehensive third party access to Facebook data. When even internal research suggests that their platform drives division your conclusion is they're overstating their case, people who are on facebooks payroll? That's like Enron publishing internal research about corruption and someone going "well I guess these guys are partisan"

I've worked in ranking myself and seen how the debates go from the inside. I would not take a conclusion like this at face value, no. If they had included some data, maybe.

What you would likely have to do to determine this as an outsider is sample a number of people, ask them for opinions on stuff, look at their feeds. See if certain opinions are overrepresented. Look at correlation between opinions they have and opinions they see while you are at it.

Re: Chan Zuckerberg Initiative scientists: FB’s practices ‘antithetical’ to mission

#52
post #45
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Mark Zuckerberg make Facebook all by himself?

Nobody ever claimed he did. His net worth is, at the moment, ~11.6% of the total market cap of Facebook. Do you think the other people who helped create Facebook worked for free? Do you think a neurosurgeon does a surgery all by himself?

A better question is, did the other people who helped create Facebook receive total compensation anywhere close to proportional to the value they created for Facebook? Not a rhetorical question. I’m curious what the estimated value to Facebook a high level employee is, relative to the compensation they receive. Then compare that ratio to Zuckerberg’s ratio.

Re: Chan Zuckerberg Initiative scientists: FB’s practices ‘antithetical’ to mission

#53
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody ever claimed he did. His net worth is, at the moment, ~11.6% of the total market cap of Facebook. Do you think the other people who helped create Facebook worked for free? Do you think a neurosurgeon does a surgery all by himself?

A better question is, did the other people who helped create Facebook receive total compensation anywhere close to proportional to the value they created for Facebook? Not a rhetorical question. I’m curious what the estimated value to Facebook a high level employee is, relative to the compensation they receive. Then compare that ratio to Zuckerberg’s ratio.

> A better question is, did the other people who helped create Facebook receive total compensation anywhere close to proportional to the value they created for Facebook

I don't think that is possible to measure, and even if it was I don't think it is reasonable to say that is then deserved. People that work at FB feel they are fairly compensated, otherwise they can go work somewhere else.

It doesn't matter how much value you add to a thing if the thing you are adding value to is owned by someone else.

If you hire a contractor to fix up your house, and pay him $30k, and these improvements end up increasing the value of your home by $60k, are you going to call up the contractor and say "hey, the value of my home increased more by your work than I thought it would, here is an extra $30k"? I doubt it. And that is in a hypothetical situation where you know precisely how much value was added by that one individual. But as I said above, that is pretty much impossible to do anyway.

Re: Chan Zuckerberg Initiative scientists: FB’s practices ‘antithetical’ to mission

#54
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody ever claimed he did. His net worth is, at the moment, ~11.6% of the total market cap of Facebook. Do you think the other people who helped create Facebook worked for free? Do you think a neurosurgeon does a surgery all by himself?

A better question is, did the other people who helped create Facebook receive total compensation anywhere close to proportional to the value they created for Facebook? Not a rhetorical question. I’m curious what the estimated value to Facebook a high level employee is, relative to the compensation they receive. Then compare that ratio to Zuckerberg’s ratio.

In a market economy you don't pay for things in proportion to the value they create, you pay based on the supply and the demand.

An EpiPen might save your life, should you pay for it in proportion to the value it creates for you? Or maybe you can pay based on the availability.

Re: Chan Zuckerberg Initiative scientists: FB’s practices ‘antithetical’ to mission

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better question is, did the other people who helped create Facebook receive total compensation anywhere close to proportional to the value they created for Facebook? Not a rhetorical question. I’m curious what the estimated value to Facebook a high level employee is, relative to the compensation they receive. Then compare that ratio to Zuckerberg’s ratio.

> A better question is, did the other people who helped create Facebook receive total compensation anywhere close to proportional to the value they created for Facebook I don't think that is possible to measure, and even if it was I don't think it is reasonable to say that is then deserved. People that work at FB feel they are fairly compensated, otherwise they can go work somewhere else. It doesn't matter how much v…

It’s possible to measure. Perhaps not to an extremely high confidence value, but it’s absurd to say an upper and lower bound of these ratios could not be determined. Just call Lloyd’s of London if you don’t believe me. If it can be insured, it can be analyzed sufficiently so these numbers exist and have some errors bars on them.

So now we know just now underpaid/overpaid Zuckerberg and our high level employee are. For a thought exercise, what do you think the employees would do with this information? HR departments? Boards of Directors? CEOs? Angel investors? Wealth management advisors? Loan risk quants? Four star generals? Party and national leaders?

Some of these may not care if they knew, or would be too busy to care. I think others already have an understanding of these kinds of numbers and relations due to specific domain knowledge or demographic knowledge; aptitudes which make one suited for a given job may also make one especially clever or capable. In any case, the effect of this knowledge varies.

I didn’t say that ratio had anything to do with fairness or equality. I think that was something you assumed or imputed into my statement.

Insurance companies in many jurisdictions are regulated to prevent excess profits. That’s why car insurance companies are sending refund checks; they’re legally obligated to pass on the savings if it costs them less to provide insurance to you. Why is it absurd then to ask for pay commensurate with profits? They call them points in Hollywood movie contracts[1]; they may have other names in other fields.

Perhaps companies over a certain value should be required by law or charter to give employees a choice to receive their regular pay as:

1) x% of value generation relative to other employees in the company as assessed by the people in the company and outside data;

2) y% of value generation relative to any other measure, such as company stock or inflation;

3) z, their inflation adjusted prior pay period payment; or

4) the same payment as they received last pay period;

whichever is greater, or whichever the employee chooses.

Would that be fair to the company? Why or why not? Would that be fair to workers? Seems hard to say how it would be unfair, unless you are a low value, replaceable worker. Is it ideal? Is it even workable? Would employees like having choice and knowledge better than the alternative? Would they like it better than the current status quo? In the interest of market transparency and maximal agency of market actors, which side is the hand of the market on?

Some of these questions can be analyzed by looking at worker-owned co-ops and companies.

[1] http://www.hollywoodlexicon.com/points.html

Re: Chan Zuckerberg Initiative scientists: FB’s practices ‘antithetical’ to mission

#56
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better question is, did the other people who helped create Facebook receive total compensation anywhere close to proportional to the value they created for Facebook? Not a rhetorical question. I’m curious what the estimated value to Facebook a high level employee is, relative to the compensation they receive. Then compare that ratio to Zuckerberg’s ratio.

In a market economy you don't pay for things in proportion to the value they create, you pay based on the supply and the demand. An EpiPen might save your life, should you pay for it in proportion to the value it creates for you? Or maybe you can pay based on the availability.

If it saves your live, it should be regulated, or the costs otherwise removed or hidden or not placed upon the consumer or end-user. How you do this is important but not to the context of this question. It’s a matter of humanity and morality as much as profits and benefits.

Re: Chan Zuckerberg Initiative scientists: FB’s practices ‘antithetical’ to mission

#57

There are also a lot of people who think the way media companies are acting (in terms of censoring/suppressing speech they don't agree with) is horrifying but are afraid to speak out against it because they fear the social or economic consequences of doing so.

Can you use your money as speech to short their stock? How else can you meaningfully joust with a multinational megacorp on an individual level?

Why do you feel that it’s censorship or speech suppression as opposed to exercising their own right as a company to set and enforce their own Terms of Service? How would you change the current system? How would you enforce your changes? How would your changes apply to overseas firms, if that is even technically or legally possible?

Re: Chan Zuckerberg Initiative scientists: FB’s practices ‘antithetical’ to mission

#58

The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative's mission is to shelter most of Zuck's wealth from taxation while ensuring that he and his wife retain as much control over it as possible. Facebook's negative externalities are orthogonal to this mission.

Zuckerberg net worth: ~$78b. Mean US neurosurgeon annual income: ~$600k So Zuckerberg is worth 130K neurosurgeon-years. Neurosurgeons are the highest compensated surgery specialty [1]. In the US there are a total of 50k surgeons of any type [2]. Does anyone think that Zuckerberg created, with his own hands, >=3x the annual economic output of all US surgeons? [1] https://medium.com/nomad-health/complete-list-of-averag…

In terms of value created for your life, did he? It’s pretty likely the answer is “yes.”

Re: Chan Zuckerberg Initiative scientists: FB’s practices ‘antithetical’ to mission

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A better question is, did the other people who helped create Facebook receive total compensation anywhere close to proportional to the value they created for Facebook I don't think that is possible to measure, and even if it was I don't think it is reasonable to say that is then deserved. People that work at FB feel they are fairly compensated, otherwise they can go work somewhere else. It doesn't matter how much v…

It’s possible to measure. Perhaps not to an extremely high confidence value, but it’s absurd to say an upper and lower bound of these ratios could not be determined. Just call Lloyd’s of London if you don’t believe me. If it can be insured, it can be analyzed sufficiently so these numbers exist and have some errors bars on them. So now we know just now underpaid/overpaid Zuckerberg and our high level employee are. Fo…

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Re: Chan Zuckerberg Initiative scientists: FB’s practices ‘antithetical’ to mission

#60
post #20
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about. He decides where the money goes even when it’s in the foundation. He gets tax benefits for giving it to things considered charitable by the government.

Did they stop teaching civics in class? https://chanzuckerberg.com/grants-ventures/grants/ "Grants are awarded via three funding entities: the Chan Zuckerberg Foundation, a 501(c)3 private foundation; the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative Donor-Advised Fund (DAF) at the Silicon Valley Community Foundation; and Chan Zuckerberg Advocacy, a 501(c)4 organization." Now please do check how money needs to be spent by 501(c)3: http…

First line of your comment is very representative of what I hate with HN. So elitistic, patronizing and snarky
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