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Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

reuters.com

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Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#161

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

huonpine wrote: post #131
HaloZero wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would require significant more infrastructure in public spaces. Requiring petrol stations is a good first step to break the barrier that combines private/public work. (I'm assuming petrol stations are private enterprises in Germany on this point)

Would it? My local city has electric parking meters, is it hard to add a cable to that?

The current needed to charge an EV is far higher than what a parking meter was wired for.

Privately run charging stations on public sidewalks are few and pricey and most of the time sitting empty.

So it's clear that if you want a mass switch to EVs the government will need to subsidize the infrastructure to make EV charging affordable. However, digging up the sidewalks of a whole city with public funds to cable it for EV charging is the last thing taxpayers want to hear even in green Austria since it's seen as a something that will only benefit the top % that can afford EVs and they already have charging stations at their houses.

So we're back to square one.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#162

Post by imtringued »

cookiengineer wrote: post #134
qayxc wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations [...] You do realise that we're talking about Germany here, don't you? You cannot apply US standards to a foreign country with 7x the population density and only a ~50% home ownership rate... The fact of the matter is, that half of German households cannot charge their vehicles at home, because they live in a rented apartment. In cities in particular (you know,…

Another problem is that even if you are lucky to be able to rent a garage for a few hundred bucks per month, you are not able to get your car charged inside. A lot of building regulations will prevent that, including Erschliessungsgebühren, Elektroverträglichkeitsmessungen, the required VDE Sicherheitsprüfungen and the fact that each garage lot would require a legal address in order for paying Energiesteuer there, as…

Anecdote: I pay 20€/month for my garage lot.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#164

Post by imtringued »

eru wrote: post #141
gpsx wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be a good use of gas stations for electric cars is battery swapping. It is too early to make this mandatory but I think it might be time to start working on this idea. (It has been looked into before.)

Why would you make any of this mandatory? If people are willing to pay for this service, someone will be eager to make a buck and supply.

This isn't just a matter of paying for a service because ICE cars will disappear in a few decades. Removing options before there are viable alternatives is bad policy. Good policy would make the migration from an old to a new technology as smooth as possible.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#165

Post by tannhaeuser »

cookiengineer wrote: post #158
tannhaeuser wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Do you have details to share, because I'd vaguely planned to equip my garage with electrical charging capability? I can assure you though that nobody is paying several hundred bucks per month for a garage or parking lot except maybe in the very city center of the four big cities in Germany, like next to the iconic main attraction of that city. It seems the public sector wants to grab the money for EV cha…

> Do you have details to share, because I'd vaguely planned to equip my garage with electrical charging capability? Where do you live? The regulations vary a lot from state to state and even city to city, as the local Bauamt or Baubehoerde usually has the last say when it comes to approval/denial of installations like this. In the BW area there's something available like the Netze-BW initiative that does most of the…

Thanks very much for the info! I'm in HH, but have been to Freiburg frequently some years ago, which is certainly a lovely (and expensive) place, but even there I'd be surprised to hear prices in the range you mentioned. Maybe it has changed recently.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#166

Post by vertex-four »

jussij wrote: post #156
de_watcher wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the people can't charge at home, it's not the US.

Why would anyone buy an electric car if they couldn't charge that car overnight in their own garage?

Because you can charge it in a few minutes at a gas station! Germans don't have garages, generally speaking - there's this concept that's a mystery to Americans called on-street parking.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#168

Post by cookiengineer »

imtringued wrote: post #162
cookiengineer wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another problem is that even if you are lucky to be able to rent a garage for a few hundred bucks per month, you are not able to get your car charged inside. A lot of building regulations will prevent that, including Erschliessungsgebühren, Elektroverträglichkeitsmessungen, the required VDE Sicherheitsprüfungen and the fact that each garage lot would require a legal address in order for paying Energiesteuer there, as…

Anecdote: I pay 20€/month for my garage lot.

In which city do you live/rent the garage?

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#169

Post by jillesvangurp »

It's part of a bigger stimulus package for EVs, which of course is a thing that German car manufacturers are investing in heavily. Effective or not, Germany is preparing for a mass roll out of EVs over the next years and it's a bit behind on charging infrastructure compared to neighboring countries. All this is about pumping money into the local economies while helping the car industry, which has been hit hard by the double whammy of Tesla eating their lunch and the Corona crisis.

But of course it's doubtful that people will be using charging stations the same way they use petrol stations. Mostly, it's more optimal to charge while the vehicle is parked (at home or some place with a charge point) since it takes a while for vehicles to fully charge. Also, you would not typically run these things dry and instead charge to top up when convenient (i.e. not in a hurry trying to get somewhere). And if you are really going to charge for 30minutes to an hour, do you want to be stuck at some gas station if you don't have to? I'd probably opt for some more interesting places if I had the choice.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#170

Post by goatsneez »

Political and ideological planning.. indeed what a wonderful idea as many others that the world has had seen... except, as dictated by physics the reality is not going to cooperate. Wrong economic signal crating overcapacity where not needed and deficiency where needed. The goals under which this folly is enforced will not be meet. And, the car industry, which will abuse the "game" (as they should) will to push for further and prolonged subsidizing.
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