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Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

reuters.com

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Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#81

Post by ClumsyPilot »

KorematsuFred wrote: post #21
cgb223 wrote: post #2

While I’m all for a future full of electric cars, I wonder what kind of financial burden this will put on petrol stations or even if charging stations fit the same paradigm as gas pumps since they take much longer to charge

Sadly, gas stations remain heavily regulated in many parts of the world when in reality they should not be treated much differently from say a bakery or restaurant. What Germany has done here is bit comparable to say forcing a burger joint to offer vegan options or a juice joint to serve alcohol for no reason other than pandering to the niche users. Gas stations might not even be ideal providers of charging stations,…

Furstly, gas stations are a massive safety risk and they were always strictly regulated at least for thay.

Secondly, we can't deliberate for another 15 years for every scepting to come round and for the market to sort itself out. Every year of setback in climate change mitigation will incur massive financial damange in the future.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#82

Post by mc32 »

mdoms wrote: post #79
mc32 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By home I don’t think they mean having a garage with a charger. By home I think they mean wherever you park your car at night.

Using chargers that don't exist?

I think the suggestion is that rather than build them at gas stations build them where people park their cars at night.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#84

Post by gpsx »

askvictor wrote: post #78
qayxc wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations [...] You do realise that we're talking about Germany here, don't you? You cannot apply US standards to a foreign country with 7x the population density and only a ~50% home ownership rate... The fact of the matter is, that half of German households cannot charge their vehicles at home, because they live in a rented apartment. In cities in particular (you know,…

You are totally correct, yet OP's point is still reasonable - this was written from the perspective of a petrol-car driver; moreover, it's a missed opportunity to think differently. Petrol stations require big tanks underground to store the petrol; we don't have pipelines through the city carrying petrol. On the other hand, we do have a massive network of wires carrying electricity. EV charging can so easily be distr…

What would be a good use of gas stations for electric cars is battery swapping. It is too early to make this mandatory but I think it might be time to start working on this idea. (It has been looked into before.)

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#85

Post by jussij »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #68
jussij wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The owners of the gas stations would see greater economic benefit if EVs did not become popular. So you could argue it's would be in the best interest of the owners to not allowing charging stations, as that would help to slow the uptake of EVs.

As I mentioned, already petrol stations in many countries do not actually profit from the sale of petrol since margins are so low. Rather, their profits stem largely from the attached convenience store.

The majority of petrol station traffic would be from the 'every day commuter', travelling to and from work.

And the majority of these 'every day commuters' would currently own conventional cars.

Those who drive electric cars would be charging their cars at home and as such hardly every need to stop in these stores.

By replacing conventional cars with EVs will only see that tight profit margin getting tighter.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#86

Post by def8cefe »

11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #43

This begs a larger question of how petroleum mega corps are going to weather the transition to electric vehicles. Looking at BP, margins are really poor. They have $22 Billion in cash vs. $11 Billion operating expenses and $24 Billion in debt. There is time: in March, 2% of new vehicles sold in Europe were BEV. On the other hand, the total spend on electricity per mile driven is 1/3 that of petrol. That means a compl…

Looking at just gas stations, they could spin it into a benefit since the customer will be required to stay at the station for a significant amount of time (~30 mins?) to charge instead of a few minutes.

You lure them in with the electricity then push all your high-margin crap on them like drinks and snacks. It would massively increase foot traffic to quick-service restaurants, cafes and other activities on or near the premises as well.

People will go to stations less, but they will spend more time there. Current EV utilization of paid, away-from-home chargers shouldn't be expected in future when EV owners can't just rent a ICE vehicle for any trip greater than ~400km roundtrip.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#89

Post by throwaway0a5e »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #52

Seems like policy written by petrol car drivers and not well thought out. In the future electric vehicle world 95% of charging will be done at home, or in some facility near your rental building. Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations unless they're going on an extended road trip, and then we need a particular _kind_ of DC fast charging station. I mean... I have an EV and I could count on two hands t…

>Seems like policy written by petrol car drivers

It sounds like policy written by the convenience stores (I assume some sort of convenience store owners special interest group or association exists in Germany). Their business model is they sell gas at approximately break even and make all their $$ on the store. They stand to lose big as things move electric. If they can get out in front of it and be the place where people expect chargers (as opposed to expecting to charge at the grocery store or work) to be then the stand to gain a lot of business. No one store or chain wants to be the first mover though so you get legislation instead.

Re: Germany will require all petrol stations to provide electric car charging

#90

Post by Taniwha »

willio58 wrote: post #65
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #52

Seems like policy written by petrol car drivers and not well thought out. In the future electric vehicle world 95% of charging will be done at home, or in some facility near your rental building. Most EV drivers have no need to visit charging stations unless they're going on an extended road trip, and then we need a particular _kind_ of DC fast charging station. I mean... I have an EV and I could count on two hands t…

As an American, I'm jealous of this policy. If all gas stations in the US were required to provide EV charging, there would be a significant uptick in EV adoption. Even if they don't end up getting used, the value is in the peace-of-mind for people currently on the edge of making the switch to EVs. It's a great way to encourage EV adoption, second only to straight cash incentives. Another thing to consider is the ass…

Honestly people don't want to go to a gas station and wait and watch people fill up while their car charges, they'll park somewhere where they can get out, sit in a cafe, do some shopping, go to work, or go to sleep - in short people use chargers in a different way than they use gas pumps.

I think there is a place for gas stations with chargers .... along the interstate .... but not in cities

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