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Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

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Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#121

Post by Stranger43 »

kradroy wrote: post #33

As someone who has used the public internet since the late 80s I have turned away from it almost entirely in the past few years. Its content is similar to those free rags like SFWeekly you can pick up from a dispenser on the streets. It's largely poor quality content supported by largely poor quality, irrelevant advertising. If you want to get riled up and find a rub-n-tug to calm you down, you don't even have to lea…

Or rather we need some reliable way to bypass the shallow net and go straight into the deep net of currently hard to find resources, and even then you might have better luck in the microfilm archives of an well stocked regional library then the internet for doing any research on historic topics.

Part of it is/was the failure of secure anonymous micropayments systems from escaping capture by shady actors and anti privacy regulators.

Back in the olden days you used to go down to the library and obtain an printout of any article ever published for pennies pr article without having to commit to an subscription for the paper the article was printed in and we need that system to move online in an meaningful way.

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#122

Post by AnimalMuppet »

happytoexplain wrote: post #71
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all depends on where the violence is directed. People are protesting police killing a black civilian. Now, if Antifa were to show up, who would they attack, the protesters or the police? The police. If the alt-right showed up, who would they attack? The protesters. Well, who's getting attacked? Not the protesters. So that fits with it being Antifa rather than the alt-right... ... unless it's a false flag, or alt-r…

You're implying that attacking a police officer, by definition, makes you antifa, which is more than a little convenient.

I deny you the right to put words in my mouth. That is not what I am saying, nor implying.

I am saying that, in the circumstances where a white police officer killed an unarmed black person, Antifa's ideology is to be on the side of the victim, not on the side of the police. When there are protests about that death, Antifa's ideology is to be on the side of the protesters, not on the side of the police. And Antifa isn't afraid to mix it up in the streets. If they're going to be fighting in that situation, they're going to be fighting the police, not the protesters.

That does not imply that all who fight the police are Antifa. Logic doesn't work that way.

What I am saying is that, if outsiders showed up, and if those outsiders were not running a false flag operation, then their behavior fits that of Antifa better than that of the alt-right.

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#123

Post by AnimalMuppet »

thundergolfer wrote: post #118
xupybd wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the it's okay to punch a NAZI that I don't like. I think it's only okay to use violence in self defence or the defence of others. Not as a method of combating an ideology.

Ok you don’t like it, but how does it compare to having open Nazis marching in your country (presuming you’re American)? Surely you dislike that a lot more? Ideally we don’t have people punching genocidal racists because they don’t exist to punch. But if they exist and they’re marching in the streets, often protected by a police force which is (certainly now) quite obviously full of far right-wing violent authoritari…

You may not like it, but in this country, if they're not punching people, they have the right to march.

I disagree with Nazis. I abhor their ideology. I also disagree with punching peaceful marchers, even if they espouse a hateful ideology. "I'm going to use violence to take away your right to peaceful demonstrations" is also an ideology I despise.

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#124

Post by WealthVsSurvive »

EVdotIO wrote: post #103
stcredzero wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like there is some serious disinformation/psych ops working overtime across the internet right now; the tone is weirdly hostile As someone who has been online since the late 1980's, this sentence can easily apply increasingly to the Internet since around 2014 onwards. I'm afraid the days of an open internet are quickly closing. That ship sailed years ago. You're just not in one of the groups being actively c…

What I'm talking about is "ACAB", Boogaloo, and other dehumanizing thinly veiled calls for violence against $PICKAGROUP. It's ramped way up recently: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=ACAB&geo=US That's pretty unusual to be mainstream. This will be used for enacting policy, who knows what it is at this point, but it's not going to be "Oh you're shadow banned, kicked off a platform, or discredited by associat…

Maybe you can try googling ACAB yourself. Try not to seek out the message you want to receive about it, because it will be available there as well. Now cross-reference this with accounts of police violence from the civil war onward, especially in black communities, but ultimately in any community in which those in power have motive to enact violence, fear, and intimidation. The story is long and is storied and is ongoing and is real and is simply information.

The phrase, "All Cops are Bastards" is the short form of "militarized police who view their citizenship as the enemy and protect the property of the ruling class will most often result in a culture among the police which is self-reinforcing through flak, violence, retribution." It is anti-fascist.

It is the direct opposite of "boogaloo," the boogeymen that fell flat on their faces and tried to start the second civil war through race riots and the disinformation that there were race riots. I personally, have never seen the races more united, united against a common enemy: the US police force.

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#125

Post by WealthVsSurvive »

xupybd wrote: post #111
jachee wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mission statements of every Antifa group of which I'm aware start with "Protect peaceful protests from violent counter-protestors." Where do you get your information from?

It's the it's okay to punch a NAZI that I don't like. I think it's only okay to use violence in self defence or the defence of others. Not as a method of combating an ideology.

It's fine that you're a coward, physically, emotionally, intellectually. Violence against a Natzi is fine in my book, and if people some generations ago were more apt, rather than less, towards preemptive violence against the Natzi, fascist ideologies, it may have saved many, many lives. Punch a Natzi, today, save a life tomorrow! Never give them an inch or you'll have to take back a mile in blood! It's the American way, and it's time for the 2nd greatest generation!

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#126

Post by downerending »

coffeecat wrote: post #113
downerending wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm speaking most specifically of those who served in WWII, which in my opinion was the most heroic service in living memory. They prevented what would have been world-wide tyranny, and though not soon enough, prevented the extermination of the Jews in concentration camps. Antifa has shit on the memory of these honorable warriors--many of whom gave their lives--by defacing their monument. For shame.

One person did that (or possibly a small group; I'm not certain of the details). Are you suggesting that an entire nebulous, poorly-defined movement is responsible for one particular action by one particular person?

It's starting to look more concerted. Check out the story about the defacement of the memorial to the black Civil War regiment in Boston. Something's up.

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#127

Post by jachee »

dependenttypes wrote: post #110
jachee wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that he flips off the protesters who try to stop him and continues instigating until the police escalate. Did you watch the video?

> The fact that he flips off the protesters who try to stop him Because he wants to break the police car obviously. > continues instigating until the police escalate More like until he is shooed off. I do not see the police in the video at all actually. Regardless, would that not be the best idea if you are going to cause trouble? You would not want to be arrested after all. And yeah, I did watch the video.

The whole point of the entire thread (which you seem to have missed) is that the protesters were peaceful and wanted to stay that way, and this guy came in and screwed that up, while dressed like the very force that's supposed to help defend protesters and keep things peaceful.

That's the very definition of false-flag instigation.

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#128

Post by jachee »

xupybd wrote: post #111
jachee wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mission statements of every Antifa group of which I'm aware start with "Protect peaceful protests from violent counter-protestors." Where do you get your information from?

It's the it's okay to punch a NAZI that I don't like. I think it's only okay to use violence in self defence or the defence of others. Not as a method of combating an ideology.

Nazis—by simply existing as a hateful-rhetoric-fueled, racist organization—are threatening to the lives and livelihoods of others.

Punching them is just proactive defense of those others.

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#129

Post by jachee »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #123
thundergolfer wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok you don’t like it, but how does it compare to having open Nazis marching in your country (presuming you’re American)? Surely you dislike that a lot more? Ideally we don’t have people punching genocidal racists because they don’t exist to punch. But if they exist and they’re marching in the streets, often protected by a police force which is (certainly now) quite obviously full of far right-wing violent authoritari…

You may not like it, but in this country, if they're not punching people, they have the right to march. I disagree with Nazis. I abhor their ideology. I also disagree with punching peaceful marchers, even if they espouse a hateful ideology. "I'm going to use violence to take away your right to peaceful demonstrations" is also an ideology I despise.

The Paradox of Tolerance[0] begets a proactive response.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

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