Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation • Hacker News Board

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#111

Post by xupybd » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 7:40 AM UTC

jachee wrote: post #32

pingpongproduct wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't oppose fascism. Antifa is literally fascism and differs only in its mandate of which speech is allowed and which is not. Indeed the mechanism which you see in all totalitarian movement, from Nazis to ISIS. It's completely at odds with democracy and free speech.

The mission statements of every Antifa group of which I'm aware start with "Protect peaceful protests from violent counter-protestors." Where do you get your information from?

It's the it's okay to punch a NAZI that I don't like. I think it's only okay to use violence in self defence or the defence of others. Not as a method of combating an ideology.

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#112

Post by downerending » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 7:52 AM UTC

user982 wrote: post #107

downerending wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by desperate , you mean low effort , I'll sort of accept that. I spent about 90s on it. But as to these not being "Antifa", get real. If any weren't done by Antifa, Antifa would nonetheless cheer the perpetrators on with great enthusiasm. That's what Antifa is about. They are denigrators and destroyers of that which is decent and noble in humankind.

> They are denigrators and destroyers of that which is decent and noble in humankind. ...fascism, as per their name? The KKK, as in your own link? Or currently, multiple Confederate memorials[0] created specifically "to further a white supremacist future"[1], which you ever so gingerly avoided referencing directly? [0]: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/01/george... [1]: https://www.npr.org/2017/08/2…

I'm speaking most specifically of those who served in WWII, which in my opinion was the most heroic service in living memory. They prevented what would have been world-wide tyranny, and though not soon enough, prevented the extermination of the Jews in concentration camps.

Antifa has shit on the memory of these honorable warriors--many of whom gave their lives--by defacing their monument. For shame.

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#113

Post by coffeecat » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 9:47 AM UTC

downerending wrote: post #112

user982 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are denigrators and destroyers of that which is decent and noble in humankind. ...fascism, as per their name? The KKK, as in your own link? Or currently, multiple Confederate memorials[0] created specifically "to further a white supremacist future"[1], which you ever so gingerly avoided referencing directly? [0]: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/01/george... [1]: https://www.npr.org/2017/08/2…

I'm speaking most specifically of those who served in WWII, which in my opinion was the most heroic service in living memory. They prevented what would have been world-wide tyranny, and though not soon enough, prevented the extermination of the Jews in concentration camps. Antifa has shit on the memory of these honorable warriors--many of whom gave their lives--by defacing their monument. For shame.

One person did that (or possibly a small group; I'm not certain of the details). Are you suggesting that an entire nebulous, poorly-defined movement is responsible for one particular action by one particular person?

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#114

Post by divbzero » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 10:01 AM UTC

djaque wrote: post #90

schalab wrote: post #30

I have found if you have nothing constructive to do, then twitter sucks you in and is very addictive. But after a few years or so of constant nonsense, you become adapted to the addiction and just ignore everything on it. Atleast thats what happened to me. I went from constantly checking twitter to deleting my account and just going to the feed of one or two people once a day to keep informed. I now laugh at how work…

I've mostly avoided the really bad platforms like Facebook and Twitter, but I caved and started going on some of them for the past week. They are so awful. It feels like they were built from the ground up to discourage thoughtful conversation and to just create outrage. On all of these (and with youtube comments as I recently realized, although they have a placebo downvote) there is no way to downvote trolls (or bad/…

> It feels like they were built from the ground up to discourage thoughtful conversation and to just create outrage.

Indeed, they’re built from the ground up to promote engagement with no regard for positive or negative impact. It so happens that humanity’s worst impulses drive a feedback cycle that’s wonderful for engagement but terrible for humanity.

It’s a classic case of amoral objectives leading to immoral outcomes.

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#115

Post by prepend » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 12:00 PM UTC

sillysaurusx wrote: post #94

I see a lot of hate against Twitter. A lot of it is probably justified. Here's my small thread: https://twitter.com/theshawwn/status/1267631457792479237 We're in Seattle. I went to go pick up my script from the local Walgreens. When we stepped out of the Uber, we were greeted with a freshly-shattered window and a freshly-closed Walgreens. It's one thing to know "unrest is happening" in the abstract, but it's quite an…

You could maintain a blog and create a new post with your pictures.

You don’t need twitter to do this. There’s lots of free services, but most importantly you can host a blog yourself for a few dollars a year.

Twitter removes the autonomy to moderate comments made on my content.

With my blog, I can remove a comment I don’t like. Or I can engage the commenter.

I think the biggest factor is that the random comment on my blog is not piled onto all other comments with a reward system that promotes loud, low value posts. Not as many people see my blog, so jerks being jerks doesn’t provide as many eyeballs.

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#116

Post by prepend » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 12:05 PM UTC

senectus1 wrote: post #47

would not be at all surprised if the FBI has evidence that these riots are often escalated by foreign operatives. or at the very least escalated by locals that have been groomed and stoked by foreign powers. The US imploding is right up Russia's and China's street. Though I suspect that China would prefer that the Us doesn't dissolve economically, they need them to keep buying shit from them.

Maybe. I saw a live stream video of 50 people in my city smashing open the door to a Sephora and then running in to grab makeup off the shelves. I saw many videos like this where the looter filmed the action directly.

It’s possible they were groomed and stoked by foreign powers, but seems more likely to me that people just got involved in the looting and took advantage of a situation.

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#117

Post by dorkwood » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 12:18 PM UTC

djaque wrote: post #90

schalab wrote: post #30

I have found if you have nothing constructive to do, then twitter sucks you in and is very addictive. But after a few years or so of constant nonsense, you become adapted to the addiction and just ignore everything on it. Atleast thats what happened to me. I went from constantly checking twitter to deleting my account and just going to the feed of one or two people once a day to keep informed. I now laugh at how work…

I've mostly avoided the really bad platforms like Facebook and Twitter, but I caved and started going on some of them for the past week. They are so awful. It feels like they were built from the ground up to discourage thoughtful conversation and to just create outrage. On all of these (and with youtube comments as I recently realized, although they have a placebo downvote) there is no way to downvote trolls (or bad/…

I don't think it's fair to lump Twitter in with Facebook. Sure, if your feed isn't curated or you're looking at the replies to a Trump tweet, it's going to be a dumpster fire. But otherwise it can be a tool for keeping people informed without having to rely on the news.

It does require a critical eye, which the majority of people don't have, but I'm not sure what the best way to solve that problem is. Moderation at that scale doesn't seem feasible, and a downvote system to silence people, as you suggested, would be easily abused.

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#118

Post by thundergolfer » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:17 PM UTC

xupybd wrote: post #111

jachee wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mission statements of every Antifa group of which I'm aware start with "Protect peaceful protests from violent counter-protestors." Where do you get your information from?

It's the it's okay to punch a NAZI that I don't like. I think it's only okay to use violence in self defence or the defence of others. Not as a method of combating an ideology.

Ok you don’t like it, but how does it compare to having open Nazis marching in your country (presuming you’re American)? Surely you dislike that a lot more?

Ideally we don’t have people punching genocidal racists because they don’t exist to punch. But if they exist and they’re marching in the streets, often protected by a police force which is (certainly now) quite obviously full of far right-wing violent authoritarians, I’d have other priorities than condemning the anti-fascist.

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#119

Post by helen___keller » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 3:29 PM UTC

schalab wrote: post #30

I have found if you have nothing constructive to do, then twitter sucks you in and is very addictive. But after a few years or so of constant nonsense, you become adapted to the addiction and just ignore everything on it. Atleast thats what happened to me. I went from constantly checking twitter to deleting my account and just going to the feed of one or two people once a day to keep informed. I now laugh at how work…

> The problem is a lot of people are staying indoors right now with nothing to do and are discovering twitter/reddit for the first time.

Don't forget YouTube. My mother in law started with YouTube videos on Bible studies in her native language and somehow got spun into some kind of conspiracy theory black hole. We worked to talk her down from the more crazy stuff (apocalypse predictions, Qanon, etc) but it's been years and she still watches her YouTube "news" on the daily so she can keep "informed"

Re: Protests become fertile ground for online disinformation

#120

Post by d-sc » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 3:36 PM UTC

jrobn wrote: post #39

EVdotIO wrote: post #9

It seems like there is some serious disinformation/psych ops working overtime across the internet right now; the tone is weirdly hostile. I would hope people would question the motivation of obviously divisive rhetoric, but it's clear that is a resounding no. As they say, people always buy with their emotions. I'm afraid the days of an open internet are quickly closing.

I agree. We are seeing the weaponization of the internet like nothing before. It's becoming more dangerous than nuclear weapons at this point. When people can't come to a consensus on basic reality and are primed to respond with hate and violence when their reality is challenged. The world is moving quickly into a darker future.

Yeah.. and most people understand why nuclear weapons are dangerous. Meanwhile the internet silently takes over our attention span and values.