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De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

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361–370 of 799 posts

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#361
post #347
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its really about scale and whether a counter protest shows up. I'd also like to see numbers. There are a lot of pride parades, various demonstrations, women's marches etc that aren't met with violence.

In this case, the police are the counter protest, I guess.

There's plenty of bad actors looking drum up violence as well. At the very least you get the kind of person who starts fights in a bar for the sport of it. Police can work with organizers to do something about it or they can choose to let it boil over.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was everyone wearing masks and practicing social distancing of at least 6 feet? Weren’t we told that the reopen protesters were putting people at risk by protesting from their cars? I don’t disagree with the reason for protest, but if a church can’t be open, even outdoors, and an extended family picnic is illegal in a public park, then I am not sure the rationale for allowing protests now. The first amendment isn’t c…

Yes, I and about 90% of the crowd wore masks. Yes, we did our best to keep 6 feet but not always, hence the masks. People were walking around with hand sanitizer to share. A global pandemic is awful, but it does not alleviate us of our civic responsibility. Was it uncomfortable and difficult? Yes. Am I glad I went? Hell yes. Black lives matter.

> but it does not alleviate us of our civic responsibility.

The protests haven’t worked though for the last 20 years or so. IMO it’s more important to vote and promote change than to block traffic.

People remember how you made them feel more easily than what you actually said. Preventing them from getting somewhere is a great way to just piss people off.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#363
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's getting off topic, but it's worth pointing out that all the examples you're about to drum up may not have rule of law, but they certainly have "law," in that they have someone holding a monopoly on violence and the willingness to use it to meet their ends. I think that's an important distinction to make between such a place, and a place of anarchy or a commune, which aren't necessarily places that don't have "ru…

what exactly is your counter proposal? the united communes of america? monopoly on violence exists because people are evil and violent without a lawful monopoly on violence you get much of what you see in the rest of the world anarchist want to destroy the current system flaws and all for a vacuum of justice

So your solution to "people are evil and violent" is to... give a bunch of people carte blanche to be evil and commit violence with no accountability or recourse available to their victims?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The premise "many assholes are cops" doesn't need a lot of new evidence. There is more than enough existing evidence. But what do you honestly expect riots to lead to? Concessions? Or loss of the moral high ground and even more riot gear and tear gas and escalation? It's just handing the cops a free pass to justify arresting you. And not just arresting you, but charging you with something that could actually stick. I…

The bail funds have tens of millions now.

Bail doesn't help after you're convicted.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insightful reply. I marched yesterday and police fired rubber bullets into a peaceful crowd because we were blocking a non-essential intersection. On a Sunday. We refused to leave and fortunately they left and let us have a peaceful march. There doesn’t seem to be an interest in separating out the extreme minority that protest violently. There had been zero violence or destruction that day. A very well-behaved crowd…

Was everyone wearing masks and practicing social distancing of at least 6 feet? Weren’t we told that the reopen protesters were putting people at risk by protesting from their cars? I don’t disagree with the reason for protest, but if a church can’t be open, even outdoors, and an extended family picnic is illegal in a public park, then I am not sure the rationale for allowing protests now. The first amendment isn’t c…

> the lockdowns are unnecessary

precisely.

it's hard to believe this isn't all a false flag.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on a few demos that turned violent. Among them the famous one when George Bush decided to pay a visit. In all cases , the organizers wanted to cooperate with the police. They knew who were in the "autonomous bloc" (troublemakers) and would have gladly helped the police zone in on them. In all cases the police didn't care and charged peaceful and violent demonstrators alike. I find it very odd that the polic…

> I find it very odd that the police still cannot after all these years and with all development in surveillance tech distinguish between peaceful demonstrators and rioters. One could almost believe that they have no interest in making that distinction. I have been in the middle of protests when I worked for Reuters and the difference between peaceful and violent is very tiny. I was in the no-man’s land between the K…

You are trying to sound objective by comparing protests but frankly you sound downright foolish.

You're comparing protests about systemic racism and murder to protests getting hair cuts and lowering taxes.

Of course one side's protests usually break out in violence. They are protesting the very fact that they are inordinately subject to widespread state-sanctioned violence.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#367
post #219

Imagine being a cop and having to deal with stuff like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k4L97igDjY They literally save this man's life and he kills the guy who saved his life. Cops don't work in a safe space. Years of working in a violent and hateful environment must take a serious toll on them.

I like to share this video with critics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfi3Ndh3n-g to show how police have to be ready to go from 0 to 100 within seconds in order to not be killed. Notice the first thing the activist notices when he's done with the simulation: "I never realized how importance compliance is."

I watched this video and I think it presents a skewed perspective on things to lead you towards a certain outcome. I think it's worth questioning the underlying assumption throughout that video, which is that guns need to be involved in these scenarios at all.

In the first scenario, if someone chooses to randomly shoot a police officer then nothing can be done. This is generally true throughout society. If people choose to randomly shoot others they can mostly succeed. This is not an argument for an officer having a gun, but for less guns to be involved in society in general. Even if the activist or newscaster had a gun drawn from the beginning the outcome easily could/would have been the same.

In the second scenario, there's no reason for a gun to be involved over something less lethal like a taser or a baton. This is essentially a misdirect after people are freaked out from the first scenario.

In the third scenario, again why is a gun involved? Similarly a taser or baton would get the job done. Or actually using other tools like handcuffs rather than shakily pointing a gun at someones back, which is begging for an accident.

All of this to me ironically paints a picture of guns unnecessarily escalating situations, rather than the point they were trying to make.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#368
post #121

Could we please stop calling “protesters” all the people looting jewelry stores, Target, Nike, etc? These are not protesters, these are looters. Police should use any means at their disposal to protect lives and property from looters and rioters.

Could we please not waste a second of thought on the relatively minor issue of broken store windows until we sort the issue of cops indiscriminately killing black people? If you care so much, how about petition your local police force to dump their tear gas at the range and stop firing on peaceful protesters, turning a lot of sitting people into a riot.

> Could we please not waste a second of thought on the relatively minor issue of broken store windows until we sort the issue of cops indiscriminately killing black people?

Seconds of thought aren't wasted. Stay in the present. It's only an emergency if you make it one.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#369
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a ton of heavy, non-looting protests going on as well.

Absolutely and I don’t think that any reasonable person will have any problem with those. I can’t speak for all the places in US but my observations in San Jose (both personal and through FB/media) is that police was cool with peaceful protests. I saw a few times police and protesters hugging each other, doing fist bumps, etc.

Did you just start paying attention? People complain about any protest no matter how anodyne. Meanwhile people keep dying.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#370
post #121

Could we please stop calling “protesters” all the people looting jewelry stores, Target, Nike, etc? These are not protesters, these are looters. Police should use any means at their disposal to protect lives and property from looters and rioters.

Could we please not waste a second of thought on the relatively minor issue of broken store windows until we sort the issue of cops indiscriminately killing black people? If you care so much, how about petition your local police force to dump their tear gas at the range and stop firing on peaceful protesters, turning a lot of sitting people into a riot.

https://imgur.com/FsgRSJb

Minor issue huh? Video is from the LA riots in the 90s.

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