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De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

fivethirtyeight.com

191–200 of 799 posts

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were reports of planned riots in rural Polk County. Knowing they didn't have the resources to cover wide spread area, the sheriff instructed citizens to shoot anyone who broke into their home. I support this. Telling citizens you can't help them, and they must protect themselves is very different than threatening that the state itself will kill you. https://twitter.com/FOX13News/status/1267539936401592320

You can shoot a home intruder during and outside of riot conditions. I'm not sure why he posted this.

So that people do not waste precious time in a dangerous situation trying to call and/or rely on law enforcement help. I saw this tweet making rounds last night [0].

[0]: https://twitter.com/sbkaufman/status/1267271423527022592

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#192
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a video of a cop pushing a kneeling woman and then a black woman police officer yells at him for a little bit, that’s about it. I guess you could count the video of a Seattle cop telling another cop to take his knee off of a protester’s throat.

There are literal videos of cops kneeling with protestors in shows of solidarity. Peacefully talking. In LA they're sitting right now. I cannot believe how far people will go seeing what they want to see.

The police in Columbus, Ohio marched with protesters earlier today, minutes ago they tear gassed legal media observers despite their plainly identifying themselves. Countless more examples. It’s PR.

https://twitter.com/TheLantern/status/1267644471317090305

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crocodile tears. Police chiefs knew all along about the deplorable amount of racism and casual violence on their forces, they just chose to ignore them. Now the political winds are shifting and they have to go along to keep their jobs.

Change does not require looting and beatings does it? Wouldn't looting and beatings simply give the police more power, and be counter productive against making police more accountable? Looters and those who bash people's skulls in are opportunists who don't care about change. The ones that want change see their opportunity slipping away.

According to Donald Rumsfeld, looting is a normal step on the road from oppression to freedom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGGrS0VPrbc

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#194
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-de...

Please don’t post misleading statistics, in this instance it is quite racist and you come across as a racist person.

Funny how your call statistics/number racist. Godwin's Law in action.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#195
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had to patrol streets in Iraq during the surge in 2007, It was dangerous, but our ROE had escalations rules and everyone patrolled at a low ready with their helmets off. The intent was to make us a boring part of the background rather than an antagonist, and to make us look like we didn't want to be there as much as they didn't want us there. Cop's look more and more like soldiers and I think you're right abou…

This is one thing I keep hearing from service members, that the rules of engagement are much more stringent and measured in the armed forces compared to standard LEOs. What were some of the concrete rules/policies that you found effective overseas that could be effective here? I wish we as a society talked in more concrete terms around this topic.

I don't have the ROE cards anymore, but generally there was a 'wartime' and 'police or peace keeping'

In war like operations you'd still follow the rules of war, but generally you were shooting first to take objectives, there was a lot of latitude.

In peace keeping and non warlike, everything was about a force continuum.

- Ie we will patrol with weapons slung over our shoulders, with the weapons at 'action' (cocked but safe) and hands by our sides.

- If things change we actively patrol with our weapons (Still at action)-

- then you get to pointing weapons (action)

- cocking weapons (for direct crowd control, kinda silly because you lose a round at with this action but it makes the point you ain't stuff about)

- Then there's pointing with safety off, and closely followed by firing at people. (A lot is happening to get here in 'police' or 'peace keeping' scenarios)

Also our ROE had specifics such as, if your are engaged by IED or Ambush you can fire when fired upon but you can't fire at suspected targets (Like anyone on a cell phone), you have to confirm the threat. Which is pretty reasonable but in war like operations you may just fire at positions of cover because there could be enemy waiting there and you're generally trying to suppress an area. You don't want to do that in a heart's and minds kinda fight.

Anyway, I can't remember them all and they have probably changed over the last decade. But those are the main points and generally we didn't make the first move. we just waited.

I remember being shouted at by some kids and young guys for like an hour and just waiting them out. It was very frustrating but my rifle and grenades would have just created bigger issues.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you feel that way if they came and burned your house or business down? Yup, and I have the receipts to prove it: my motorcycle was vandalized in Oakland during the protests. A small price to pay for unsung voices being heard. You say violence is violence, yet I bet you have no problem with criminals being put in jail, i.e. their freedoms being violently removed from them.

Your motorcycle isn't your shelter and vandalism isn't typically complete destruction.

> Your motorcycle isn't your shelter

Not seen news come out of people's homes destroyed. If we're going to participate in a damages competition, though, let's do that - the cops shot out a couple people's eyeballs, but only after of course kicking off this whole thing by murdering black people with no consequences. There, that settles that.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#197
post #106
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only one I've seen was where two cops were restraining someone while being filmed. One of the cops had his knee on the arrestee's head/neck, and after some time his partner (administering cuffs perhaps) noticed it and wrenched his knee away.

I think I saw that one; they took the knee away because it was on a white guy's neck, wasn't it? We've already seen what happens when it's a black guy's neck

In this case, the knee was there regardless and the colleague recognised the "bad optics" (as they say). Looked like natural behaviour from the first cop rather than "I'm trying to prove we kneel on all necks" too.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#198
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t post misleading statistics, in this instance it is quite racist and you come across as a racist person.

Funny how your call statistics/number racist. Godwin's Law in action.

After adjusting your statistics to take into account that black people are 14% of the US population, I have come to the conclusion that black people are murdered by cops at a terrifyingly higher level than white people.

Why didn't you come to the same conclusion? Is it a lack of knowledge of statistics, or is it an irrational value system that depends on confirmation bias to continue to exist, i.e., racism?

It certainly doesn't help that the same people I've seen post that exact page with no context whatsoever on twitter were self-avowed racists. Any particular reason you find yourself in their camp?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Change does not require looting and beatings does it? Wouldn't looting and beatings simply give the police more power, and be counter productive against making police more accountable? Looters and those who bash people's skulls in are opportunists who don't care about change. The ones that want change see their opportunity slipping away.

The problem is that decades of peaceful protesting went ignored. Remmeber how kneeling during the national anthem against police brutality got mocked?

The police and police wives in my family were the loudest mockers of the kneeling protests, which were perfectly quiet and peaceful.

  "Blacks commit crimes at higher rates than others."
  "It's not a police problem, it's a crime problem."
  "I don't want to hear this crap when I get home from work."

> Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. -- John F. Kennedy, 1962

The inaction of police to reform themselves and elected officials to reform the laws that govern them is incentive to make it much easier for domestic terrorism to thrive.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#200

Imagine being a cop and having to deal with stuff like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k4L97igDjY They literally save this man's life and he kills the guy who saved his life. Cops don't work in a safe space. Years of working in a violent and hateful environment must take a serious toll on them.

Imagine being born into a society that brutally enslaved your ancestors for centuries. And after that ended, the society continued to severely oppress those who look like you in countless ways -- through savage violence, terrible government policies, and pervasive racist cultural norms both blatant and subtle -- even to this very day. Years of living in such a society must take a serious toll on them.
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