De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer • Hacker News Board

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#101

Post by monadic2 » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 2:19 AM UTC

vulcan01 wrote: post #95

monadic2 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. What about american history would lead you to this expectation? That said, I like the rest of your comment. It’s somewhat disturbing to hear people compare the rage of the crowd with the individual intentions of folk who break windows, raid to bring things home, and set things on fire—you’re allowing one pers…

> We should expect not "I expect". Your parent comment is not expecting this, but hoping for it.

Good catch, thanks.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#102

Post by 8note » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 2:21 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #25

just_steve_h wrote: post #10

Folks - don't be obtuse. Police commanders know exactly what will happen when they escalate with tear gas and rubber bullets. Pro-police forces WANT mayhem. It makes people watching on TV afraid of the protests, and it changes the subject away from the widespread peaceful opposition to racist police violence.

Minneapolis Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medaria_Arradondo Seattle Chief of Police: http://www.seattle.gov/police/about-us/about-the-department/... St Louis Chief of Police: http://www.slmpd.org/chief_of_police.shtml Atlanta Chief of Police: https://www.projectq.us/atlanta/atlanta_police_chief_erika_s... Chicago Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brown_(police_officer) Oakland Chie…

Sure thats the Seattle police chief, but who leads the police union?

This guy: https://youtu.be/b6cJQ1XBH8M who fits the cartoon villain side of things

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#103

Post by tcbawo » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 2:21 AM UTC

panic wrote: post #31

nostromo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minneapolis Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medaria_Arradondo Seattle Chief of Police: http://www.seattle.gov/police/about-us/about-the-department/... St Louis Chief of Police: http://www.slmpd.org/chief_of_police.shtml Atlanta Chief of Police: https://www.projectq.us/atlanta/atlanta_police_chief_erika_s... Chicago Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brown_(police_officer) Oakland Chie…

The police could stop the protests instantly by changing how they deal with racist officers and officers who kill people. They would rather escalate the situation than make these changes.

Being a police officer is a difficult, thankless, dangerous job, yet critical for a functional society.

You don't get the same resources, respect, or pension of the military. If you are let go/fired, you have little chance of finding something comparable close by.

It's not healthy for the psyche to be put into harm's way for an entire career span. There is probably a lot of untreated PTSD going on. It's not surprising that they are very leery of policies that would put them or fellow officers at risk, or be guinea pigs for policies pushed down from above.

People get awkward or remain guarded around police in social settings, so law enforcement tends to fraternize with each other and their families.

None of this makes for an environment that promotes transparency.

I'm not making any judgements for or against any of the events that have transpired. But I have sympathy for everyone involved. I suspect that the police-public dynamic will never be changed without a significant cultural shift in attitudes.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#104

Post by throw_away » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 2:22 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #87

ciarannolan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People on HN seem to have a cartoon villain view of police What could possibly give people that impression? https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu3s6j/poli...

"Police commanders ... WANT mayhem" That's what I responded to. I'm curious if you truly think the people that I listed want to see their home towns on fire.

What that ellipsis elides completely changes the meaning of the quote. The pro-police forces referred to don't necessarily include the commander. If the original person was talking about the police, would they not have used the term "police forces" instead? The fans aren't the team.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#105

Post by vulcan01 » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 2:23 AM UTC

SlavikCA wrote: post #11

olliej wrote: post #3

Yes, but police are functionally just wannabe soldiers, without the actual training. They want to beat people up. They want to be tough guys who have no consequences. Talking about how to fix policing means nothing until: * police go to jail * officers who do not report other officers go to jail * bosses/chiefs etc who are aware of abuses of power and brutality and do not arrest those officers go to jail * police are…

> all lawsuits are settled with funds from police pension funds I like it most. > police go to jail > officers who do not report other officers go to jail > bosses/chiefs etc who are aware of abuses of power and brutality and do not arrest those officers go to jail All these "go to jail" stops at the "qualified immunity". And no politician yet was willing to do anything about it. We need to demand to end this "qualif…

> all lawsuits are settled with funds from police pension funds

Wouldn't that hurt all the police officers in that area?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#106

Post by 8note » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 2:23 AM UTC

prawn wrote: post #88

xvector wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hundreds of videos have emerged of police brutality over the past few days. In how many of those videos do you see "good cops" taking down those bad cops committing acts of brutality? Almost never. I myself have only seen two videos where this has been the case, out of hundreds! Police racism and violence is an issue, but it becomes egregious when the rest of the police force just stands by.

The only one I've seen was where two cops were restraining someone while being filmed. One of the cops had his knee on the arrestee's head/neck, and after some time his partner (administering cuffs perhaps) noticed it and wrenched his knee away.

I think I saw that one; they took the knee away because it was on a white guy's neck, wasn't it? We've already seen what happens when it's a black guy's neck

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#107

Post by selimthegrim » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 2:23 AM UTC

Larrikin wrote: post #83

xvector wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hundreds of videos have emerged of police brutality over the past few days. In how many of those videos do you see "good cops" taking down those bad cops committing acts of brutality? Almost never. I myself have only seen two videos where this has been the case, out of hundreds! Police racism and violence is an issue, but it becomes egregious when the rest of the police force just stands by.

>Almost never. Are there any videos or stories at all over the past few days? There have been reports in some cities of the actual good cops here and there taking part in the protests and actually looking like they want to improve things in their communities, but I haven't heard of anything where the police have intervened on cops that were escalating violence and brutalizing protesters. It would be a pretty big turn…

Would this be like in Orlando where they took a knee with the protesters and promptly resumed teargassing them an hour later?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#108

Post by somebrody » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 2:25 AM UTC

booleandilemma wrote: post #69

somebrody wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t think that typical “pro-police forces” want to own the narrative of their cause being racist and violent I think they do. Many cops seem to be very racist and very violent. It doesn't seem like they care who knows it. Even when they do care, they might not turn on body-cams which should be a fireable offense and now it finally is in at least one case in Kentucky.

Many cops seem to be very racist and very violent Citation needed. I think most cops are just normal people trying to earn a living.

I said many. Here's many cops being very racist and very violent:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAqt_gHgAxk/?utm_source=ig_embed

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-video-appears-show-...

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#109

Post by whymauri » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 2:25 AM UTC

vkou wrote: post #81

nostromo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minneapolis Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medaria_Arradondo Seattle Chief of Police: http://www.seattle.gov/police/about-us/about-the-department/... St Louis Chief of Police: http://www.slmpd.org/chief_of_police.shtml Atlanta Chief of Police: https://www.projectq.us/atlanta/atlanta_police_chief_erika_s... Chicago Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brown_(police_officer) Oakland Chie…

Meanwhile, in Seattle: https://old.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/gu3qq1/cop_just_ca... How would you describe the sheriff casually tossing the tear gas grenade as anything but cartoonishly evil? How would you describe his co-workers, holding the line, without even looking twice at his behaviour?

Seattle PD maced a child and the officer who did it faced no repercussions. Is the Chief of Police a toothless position? The only other conclusion is that maybe GP should consider removing Seattle's Chief as a supporting example.

I would consider macing children to be "cartoonishly evil."

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#110

Post by briefcomment » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 2:26 AM UTC

flaque wrote: post #98

briefcomment wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Don't let anyone become an officer. Raise officer pay and benefits. Also, give credit to the police have done well and are well intentioned, which must be throughout the majority of the population, otherwise the US would have become unlivable decades ago.

The US is unlivable for the folks they’ve killed though. Many other countries don’t seem to have this problem, why is it unreasonable to ask police to not kill people?

It's not unreasonable. It is the right thing to do. Everyone who has been silent must speak up. That is the only way politicians will know they will be voted out of office if they don't comply with appropriate legislation. I have been generally uninvolved and I regret it.

Violence and crime though will allow the government to justify greater oppression.