De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer • Hacker News Board

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#31

Post by panic » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:47 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #25

just_steve_h wrote: post #10

Folks - don't be obtuse. Police commanders know exactly what will happen when they escalate with tear gas and rubber bullets. Pro-police forces WANT mayhem. It makes people watching on TV afraid of the protests, and it changes the subject away from the widespread peaceful opposition to racist police violence.

Minneapolis Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medaria_Arradondo Seattle Chief of Police: http://www.seattle.gov/police/about-us/about-the-department/... St Louis Chief of Police: http://www.slmpd.org/chief_of_police.shtml Atlanta Chief of Police: https://www.projectq.us/atlanta/atlanta_police_chief_erika_s... Chicago Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brown_(police_officer) Oakland Chie…

The police could stop the protests instantly by changing how they deal with racist officers and officers who kill people. They would rather escalate the situation than make these changes.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#32

Post by matwood » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:47 AM UTC

sockgrant wrote: post #9

olliej wrote: post #3

Yes, but police are functionally just wannabe soldiers, without the actual training. They want to beat people up. They want to be tough guys who have no consequences. Talking about how to fix policing means nothing until: * police go to jail * officers who do not report other officers go to jail * bosses/chiefs etc who are aware of abuses of power and brutality and do not arrest those officers go to jail * police are…

Sorry, your comment might make some good points but you lost me, your reader, when you made absolute claims about police officers. There certainly exist police that just want to be tough guys and beat people up. But there’s plenty officers not like that. You detract from your other points by taking such a black and white stance.

On one hand I agree. I’m sure the majority of cops are good people doing a hard job. But, at some point it becomes a loss of institutional control (to take a term from the ncaa). Everyone needs to be fired and the institution has to be restarted.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#33

Post by dexen » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:48 AM UTC

somebrody wrote: post #29

nostromo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minneapolis Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medaria_Arradondo Seattle Chief of Police: http://www.seattle.gov/police/about-us/about-the-department/... St Louis Chief of Police: http://www.slmpd.org/chief_of_police.shtml Atlanta Chief of Police: https://www.projectq.us/atlanta/atlanta_police_chief_erika_s... Chicago Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brown_(police_officer) Oakland Chie…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking Above, they cherry-picked a few cops that just happen to be the chief of police. It's not that simple. You don't understand the institutions involved if you highlight these examples. Police, police unions, district attorneys, etc. It's not simple.

>cherry picking

Baseless accusation. The protests are mostly in the blue-voting cities, and the GP's list is representative.

[edit]

Here is how it works:

Minneapolis, Chief of Police: nominated (...) by the Mayor of Minneapolis (Betsy Hodges) [1]

Seattle, Chief of Police: [n]ominated by Mayor Jenny Durkan [2]

St Louis, Comissioner of Police: appointed as the 35th Commissioners of the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department on December 28, 2017 by Mayor Lyda Krewson [3]

Atlanta Chief of Police: Mayor of Atlanta Kasim Reed announced on December 1, 2016, that he had chosen Shields [4]

Chicago Superintended of the Chicago Police Department: The City Council on Wednesday voted 50-0 to appoint former Dallas Police Chief David Brown to lead the Chicago Police Department [5]

Oakland Chief of Police: Oakland Mayor Libby Schaaf announced Monday that she has appointed former San Mateo Police Chief Susan Manheimer as Oakland’s interim police chief [6]

--

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medaria_Arradondo

[2] https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/carmen-be...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hayden_Jr.

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erika_Shields

[5] https://news.wttw.com/2020/04/22/david-brown-confirmed-chica...

[6] https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Oakland-Mayor-ap...

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#34

Post by somebrody » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:49 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #25

just_steve_h wrote: post #10

Folks - don't be obtuse. Police commanders know exactly what will happen when they escalate with tear gas and rubber bullets. Pro-police forces WANT mayhem. It makes people watching on TV afraid of the protests, and it changes the subject away from the widespread peaceful opposition to racist police violence.

Minneapolis Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medaria_Arradondo Seattle Chief of Police: http://www.seattle.gov/police/about-us/about-the-department/... St Louis Chief of Police: http://www.slmpd.org/chief_of_police.shtml Atlanta Chief of Police: https://www.projectq.us/atlanta/atlanta_police_chief_erika_s... Chicago Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brown_(police_officer) Oakland Chie…

Also, you don't understand the institutions involved if you highlight these examples. Police, police unions, district attorneys, etc. It's not simple

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#35

Post by HarryHirsch » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:49 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #25

just_steve_h wrote: post #10

Folks - don't be obtuse. Police commanders know exactly what will happen when they escalate with tear gas and rubber bullets. Pro-police forces WANT mayhem. It makes people watching on TV afraid of the protests, and it changes the subject away from the widespread peaceful opposition to racist police violence.

Minneapolis Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medaria_Arradondo Seattle Chief of Police: http://www.seattle.gov/police/about-us/about-the-department/... St Louis Chief of Police: http://www.slmpd.org/chief_of_police.shtml Atlanta Chief of Police: https://www.projectq.us/atlanta/atlanta_police_chief_erika_s... Chicago Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brown_(police_officer) Oakland Chie…

It's crocodile tears. Police chiefs knew all along about the deplorable amount of racism and casual violence on their forces, they just chose to ignore them. Now the political winds are shifting and they have to go along to keep their jobs.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#36

Post by x86_64Ubuntu » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:49 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #5

olliej wrote: post #3

Yes, but police are functionally just wannabe soldiers, without the actual training. They want to beat people up. They want to be tough guys who have no consequences. Talking about how to fix policing means nothing until: * police go to jail * officers who do not report other officers go to jail * bosses/chiefs etc who are aware of abuses of power and brutality and do not arrest those officers go to jail * police are…

What’s striking to me is the stark differences in policing with the US vs other common law/Anglosphere countries, where policing is by consent. I guess the other countries were still much more under British influence during the formation of policing?

The roots of policing in the US have it's origins in slave patrols. Very different from the rest of the Anglosphere.

https://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-a...

"Slave patrols and Night Watches, which later became modern police departments, were both designed to control the behaviors of minorities."

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#37

Post by CameronNemo » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:50 AM UTC

rectang wrote: post #23

inputError wrote: post #7

ACAB

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.C.A.B . This violates the site guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys the curiosity this site exists for.

In his defense, all technology is an instrument of political and ideological battle. If the site admins really want to enforce that guideline, then we should not be discussing current events here.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#38

Post by emperorsclothes » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:50 AM UTC

HarryHirsch wrote: post #35

nostromo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minneapolis Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medaria_Arradondo Seattle Chief of Police: http://www.seattle.gov/police/about-us/about-the-department/... St Louis Chief of Police: http://www.slmpd.org/chief_of_police.shtml Atlanta Chief of Police: https://www.projectq.us/atlanta/atlanta_police_chief_erika_s... Chicago Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brown_(police_officer) Oakland Chie…

It's crocodile tears. Police chiefs knew all along about the deplorable amount of racism and casual violence on their forces, they just chose to ignore them. Now the political winds are shifting and they have to go along to keep their jobs.

Strange to see wild narratives on HN about police racism and violence that have no basis in reality.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#39

Post by quinnd » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:50 AM UTC

SlavikCA wrote: post #11

olliej wrote: post #3

Yes, but police are functionally just wannabe soldiers, without the actual training. They want to beat people up. They want to be tough guys who have no consequences. Talking about how to fix policing means nothing until: * police go to jail * officers who do not report other officers go to jail * bosses/chiefs etc who are aware of abuses of power and brutality and do not arrest those officers go to jail * police are…

> all lawsuits are settled with funds from police pension funds I like it most. > police go to jail > officers who do not report other officers go to jail > bosses/chiefs etc who are aware of abuses of power and brutality and do not arrest those officers go to jail All these "go to jail" stops at the "qualified immunity". And no politician yet was willing to do anything about it. We need to demand to end this "qualif…

> All these "go to jail" stops at the "qualified immunity". And no politician yet was willing to do anything about it. We need to demand to end this "qualified immunity". That's number one force, that corrupts police.

Justin Amash put forward an act today https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/1267267244029083648

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#40

Post by ciarannolan » Tue, Jun 02, 2020, 1:51 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #25

just_steve_h wrote: post #10

Folks - don't be obtuse. Police commanders know exactly what will happen when they escalate with tear gas and rubber bullets. Pro-police forces WANT mayhem. It makes people watching on TV afraid of the protests, and it changes the subject away from the widespread peaceful opposition to racist police violence.

Minneapolis Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medaria_Arradondo Seattle Chief of Police: http://www.seattle.gov/police/about-us/about-the-department/... St Louis Chief of Police: http://www.slmpd.org/chief_of_police.shtml Atlanta Chief of Police: https://www.projectq.us/atlanta/atlanta_police_chief_erika_s... Chicago Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brown_(police_officer) Oakland Chie…

>People on HN seem to have a cartoon villain view of police

What could possibly give people that impression?

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu3s6j/poli...