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De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

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Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#111

Post by drusepth »

just_steve_h wrote: post #10

Folks - don't be obtuse. Police commanders know exactly what will happen when they escalate with tear gas and rubber bullets. Pro-police forces WANT mayhem. It makes people watching on TV afraid of the protests, and it changes the subject away from the widespread peaceful opposition to racist police violence.

I am pro-police and I do NOT want mayhem. The ideal protest in my eyes is a peaceful, effective one. One that causes real change -- like increased oversight, accountability, altered training, etc -- in the general police population: one that fixes the very real problems we've seen with police for years and continuously improves law enforcement for years to come.

Claiming "pro-police forces WANT mayhem" paints the situation in a very generalized, unhelpful, us-versus-them light.

There are definitely some pro-police forces that probably want some mayhem, for exactly the reason you state. There's probably others that want mayhem for other reasons. Across the board, however, I'd imagine most pro-police groups of people prefer peaceful protests that don't put officer lives at risk, not to mention all the collateral damage to protestors, buildings, economies, etc. that also could be avoided.

It's entirely possible (and, I'd argue, likely) that pro-police people aren't some homogenous group of schemers. You can be enraged about police brutality, abuse, and misconduct -- and also enraged by violent riots.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#113

Post by xvector »

troughway wrote: post #84
xvector wrote: post #55

Unpopular opinion: The newfound delusion that peaceful protests have ever engendered any real change as opposed to their violent cousin is perhaps the nail in the coffin of freedom and democracy.

Very unpopular opinion: wait til the military steps in, then you'll see how much more ineffective the violent cousin is.

When the military starts shooting civilians, those that are shot become martyrs and the movement becomes explosive. The military will not shoot civilians without extremely good reason - they aren't cops, after all.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#114

Post by beepboopbeep »

What has stood out to me, even above the violence, is the sheer fear and stupidity in the eyes of officers. They have zero control over themselves. They aren't doing a job, they're just fighting people. It's incredible just how bizarrely amateur they all are. Like it was all one violent LARP to them until they met their first riot

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#115

Post by slg »

beloch wrote: post #78

We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. The increasing militarization of police is a trend that must be reversed. However, we should not neglect the other side of the equation either. This article is, in large part, about just that. The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organize…

>The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organizers meeting and jointly managing protests, but that this practice fell into disuse after the 1999 Seattle WTO meeting in which protesters violated the negotiated terms and police responded with violence.

Beyond the general history, this is a big ask of the protesters when one of the primary motivators for this specific protest is distrust of the police.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#116

Post by [deleted] »

nostromo wrote: post #25
just_steve_h wrote: post #10

Folks - don't be obtuse. Police commanders know exactly what will happen when they escalate with tear gas and rubber bullets. Pro-police forces WANT mayhem. It makes people watching on TV afraid of the protests, and it changes the subject away from the widespread peaceful opposition to racist police violence.

Minneapolis Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medaria_Arradondo Seattle Chief of Police: http://www.seattle.gov/police/about-us/about-the-department/... St Louis Chief of Police: http://www.slmpd.org/chief_of_police.shtml Atlanta Chief of Police: https://www.projectq.us/atlanta/atlanta_police_chief_erika_s... Chicago Chief of Police: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brown_(police_officer) Oakland Chie…

[deleted]

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#117

Post by rodgerd »

briefcomment wrote: post #86
flaque wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What else is there to assume? That police, across the country, are wildly incompetent?

Yes. Don't let anyone become an officer. Raise officer pay and benefits. Also, give credit to the police have done well and are well intentioned, which must be throughout the majority of the population, otherwise the US would have become unlivable decades ago.

An SFPD officer involved in misconduct during the protests was cited as having a salary north of $200,000.

How much do officers need to be paid not to shoot journalists in the eyes?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#118

Post by adamsea »

briefcomment wrote: post #97
toomuchtodo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the change hasn’t happened yet, what other options are left? Looting? Probably not. Protests until meaningful reform occurs? Might help if nothing else has. A government is supposed to be afraid of the electorate (Jefferson). They’ve lost that fear, and you see that trickle down from legislators all the way to law enforcement.

The electorate induces fear by holding the ability to give and take power from the government. They make their demands known by being loud. The vast majority of us have been guilty of being silent when our neighbor is desperately imploring the government for change. I am guilty of silence, and I regret it and will make my demands known. All of this does not mean that the reasonable peaceful path is not effective. It…

“If the soul is left in darkness, sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness.” - Victor Hugo

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#119

Post by evan_ »

Larrikin wrote: post #83
xvector wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hundreds of videos have emerged of police brutality over the past few days. In how many of those videos do you see "good cops" taking down those bad cops committing acts of brutality? Almost never. I myself have only seen two videos where this has been the case, out of hundreds! Police racism and violence is an issue, but it becomes egregious when the rest of the police force just stands by.

>Almost never. Are there any videos or stories at all over the past few days? There have been reports in some cities of the actual good cops here and there taking part in the protests and actually looking like they want to improve things in their communities, but I haven't heard of anything where the police have intervened on cops that were escalating violence and brutalizing protesters. It would be a pretty big turn…

There’s a video of a cop pushing a kneeling woman and then a black woman police officer yells at him for a little bit, that’s about it. I guess you could count the video of a Seattle cop telling another cop to take his knee off of a protester’s throat.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#120

Post by iphone_elegance »

beloch wrote: post #78

We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. The increasing militarization of police is a trend that must be reversed. However, we should not neglect the other side of the equation either. This article is, in large part, about just that. The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organize…

it's a nice idea but instead we're about to go full tiananmen
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