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De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

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Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crocodile tears. Police chiefs knew all along about the deplorable amount of racism and casual violence on their forces, they just chose to ignore them. Now the political winds are shifting and they have to go along to keep their jobs.

Strange to see wild narratives on HN about police racism and violence that have no basis in reality.

> wild narratives on HN about police racism and violence

You can see cops wilding out here

From reddit:

Please share this

firing something at innocent person on their porch:

https://streamable.com/u2jzoo

cop appearing to be enjoying himself today:

https://v.redd.it/jjclrdzp8x151

cop shooting something at guy for saying "fuck you":

https://v.redd.it/zepg0b43ly151

cops breaking supplies for peaceful protestors:

https://v.redd.it/v8x8isj0xz151

nypd driving into protestors:

https://v.redd.it/mztm15kh00251 https://gfycat.com/misguidedrecklesscod

cops shoving an old dude to the ground:

https://v.redd.it/bluggpblrz151

police actively seeking out fights compilation:

https://v.redd.it/m82yxl4qh0251

cop driving at people aggressively on a campus:

https://v.redd.it/ngxvkoro60251

cop shooting rubber bullets at people watching from apartment:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Sarah_Mojarad/status/126663304659...

police shooting the press with rubber bullets:

https://v.redd.it/o3v8ps7rat151

police arresting a CNN reporter:

https://v.redd.it/yce9bpk8mo151

police doing a drive-by pepper spraying

https://mobile.twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1266193926316228...

photographer being pepper sprayed:

https://i.redd.it/4ix8f3j6dy151.jpg

guy with hands in the air gets his mask ripped off and pepper sprayed:

https://v.redd.it/wlx0gyoe21251

lady who was coming home with groceries who got a rubber bullet to the head:

https://i.redd.it/ns0uj557x0251.jpg

https://mobile.twitter.com/KevinRKrause/status/1266898396339...

reporter blinded by rubber bullets:

https://mobile.twitter.com/KillerMartinis/status/12666185256...

reporter describes getting tear gassed:

https://mobile.twitter.com/mollyhf/status/126691138261369242...

couple getting yanked out of their car and tased for violating curfew:

https://mobile.twitter.com/GAFollowers/status/12669191045748...

young woman gets shoved to the ground by officer:

https://mobile.twitter.com/whitney_hu/status/126654071018819...

reporter sheltering in gas station is pepper sprayed: https://twitter.com/MichaelAdams317

reporter trying to get home gets window shot out: https://twitter.com/JaredGoyette/status/1266961243476299778

cops come at a guy for filming a police car burning:

https://twitter.com/johncusack/status/1266953514242228229

photographer arrested:

https://youtu.be/9wgkGLmphLE

Columbus police assaulting protestors:

https://twitter.com/KRobPhoto/status/1266796191469252610

congresswoman sprayed with pepper spray during protest:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/30/politics/joyce-beatty-ohio-pe...

7 protesters fired on with rubber bullets:

https://v.redd.it/tal1ncha4o151

cops pepper spraying a group of protestors without provocation https://v.redd.it/0dxnkso0a1251

young child allegedly pepper sprayed:

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/video-shows-milk-poured-ov...

horse tramples young woman, police investigating: https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/05/30/watch-vi...

cop pushes protestor with his bike

https://twitter.com/ava/status/1266797973834395648?s=20

Reuters reporters detail being shot at with rubber bullets:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-protes...

Denver PD pushing reporter into a fire

https://twitter.com/tessrmalle/status/1266945413258653696?s=...

Denver PD shooting at a couple in a car after learning pregnant woman is in the car

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAzZnQvF8B0/?igshid=woeoeruh786o

Wife + husband get beaten by 2x4 for defending their shop

https://streamable.com/9w5c5e

“Light them up” for standing in their porch

https://streamable.com/u2jzoo

Rioter gets slammed into a fence by a garbage receptacle by fellow rioters

https://reddit.com/r/IdiotsFightingThings/comments/gtqdne/fr...

Kentucky cops shooting a news crew with pepper bullets

https://reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/gt6c01/louisville_...

News reporter gets arrested for nothing

https://reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/gsrjm8/cnn_reporte...

Cop pepper spraying protesters while driving by

https://reddit.com/r/Unexpected/comments/gswy45/these_were_p...

Cops shoots protester for no reason twice

https://reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu3s6j/police_s...

Police hunting down journalist and pepper spraying him while his head is on the ground

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu5yru/us_s...

Police pulling down black man’s mask to pepper spray him with his hands up

https://twitter.com/AJRupchandani/status/1266889115288711168...

Police pulling black family FROM THEIR CAR by breaking the windshield, cutting the tires, and using mace and tasers

https://twitter.com/chimdesires/status/1267198829775990787?s...

Bike cop runs into some guy from behind and then assaults him

https://twitter.com/The_Stepover/status/1267240778645925889?...

Covering up badge numbers

https://twitter.com/Rosemar41833206/status/12669486864933847...

Cop opens car door at speed to hit a protester as they pass

https://twitter.com/ZeeshanAleem/status/1266562022398926848?...

Pack of police pepper spray a couple random pedestrians, and then spray into the open window of a guy who witnessed it in his own home

https://twitter.com/Mahina_420/status/1267254525112594433?s=...

Another cop using their vehicle as a deadly weapon

https://i.imgur.com/QTZCPKg.gifv

Police drag off man for... walking

https://twitter.com/LasVegasLocally/status/12672108415956049...

Police arrest journalist

https://twitter.com/keithboykin/status/1266933018570219520?s...

State senator was pepper sprayed and cuffed while trying to keep things peaceful at Barclays Arena. http://bronx.news12.com/story/42192118/state-senator-says-he...

if you have anything you'd like to add please link it!

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu3s6j/poli...

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People on HN seem to have a cartoon villain view of police What could possibly give people that impression? https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu3s6j/poli...

"Police commanders ... WANT mayhem" That's what I responded to. I'm curious if you truly think the people that I listed want to see their home towns on fire.

If it increases their power and budget - sure! It's not as if they were personally affected.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#93
What about small business owners and members of the public subjected to violence and looting, who keeps them safe? I don't care about the police or protesters, they put themselves in this situation knowing too well what they are putting themselves into. But why regular members of the public need to suffer from this? Any policy should take them into account first and foremost.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#94
Here is what absolutely boggles my mind: this information is so well know the USA Department Of The Army Field Manual on Counterinsurgency contains:

> Security force abuses and the social upheaval caused by collateral damage from combat can be major escalating factors for insurgencies.

https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=468442

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#95
post #78

We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. The increasing militarization of police is a trend that must be reversed. However, we should not neglect the other side of the equation either. This article is, in large part, about just that. The article points out that many protests in the U.S. went smoothly through the practice of police and protest organize…

> We should expect police to us less use violence and improve their crowd management and deescalation skills. What about american history would lead you to this expectation? That said, I like the rest of your comment. It’s somewhat disturbing to hear people compare the rage of the crowd with the individual intentions of folk who break windows, raid to bring things home, and set things on fire—you’re allowing one pers…

> We should expect

not "I expect". Your parent comment is not expecting this, but hoping for it.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People on HN seem to have a cartoon villain view of police What could possibly give people that impression? https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu3s6j/poli...

"Police commanders ... WANT mayhem" That's what I responded to. I'm curious if you truly think the people that I listed want to see their home towns on fire.

> I'm curious if you truly think the people that I listed want to see their home towns on fire

When given a choice to protect murderous cops or prevent a fire, they chose to protect the murderous cops. All the cops have to do is go to jail, get a court date, post bail and sit at home. Why can't a cop that murdered someone be that inconvenienced?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Change does not require looting and beatings does it? Wouldn't looting and beatings simply give the police more power, and be counter productive against making police more accountable? Looters and those who bash people's skulls in are opportunists who don't care about change. The ones that want change see their opportunity slipping away.

If the change hasn’t happened yet, what other options are left? Looting? Probably not. Protests until meaningful reform occurs? Might help if nothing else has. A government is supposed to be afraid of the electorate (Jefferson). They’ve lost that fear, and you see that trickle down from legislators all the way to law enforcement.

The electorate induces fear by holding the ability to give and take power from the government. They make their demands known by being loud. The vast majority of us have been guilty of being silent when our neighbor is desperately imploring the government for change. I am guilty of silence, and I regret it and will make my demands known.

All of this does not mean that the reasonable peaceful path is not effective. It just tells us citizens must take part.

It is yet to be determined if looting and violence can result in change. What is most likely is that the government uses this to justify greater oppression.

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#98
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What else is there to assume? That police, across the country, are wildly incompetent?

Yes. Don't let anyone become an officer. Raise officer pay and benefits. Also, give credit to the police have done well and are well intentioned, which must be throughout the majority of the population, otherwise the US would have become unlivable decades ago.

The US is unlivable for the folks they’ve killed though.

Many other countries don’t seem to have this problem, why is it unreasonable to ask police to not kill people?

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#99
I'm going to copy/paste the experience of a local state senator from Facebook because, well, I found it insightful and relevant to this article. This is from NC State Senator Jeff Jackson. He represents a district in Charlotte.

----

Last night I went into uptown at around 7:00 p.m. to do my part to help keep the peace.

Our city had already had a peaceful and powerful protest earlier that afternoon with a message of love and justice and it was important that the evening protest stayed safe and civil.

At the beginning there were roughly 1,500 people. That’s about half the number who were at the afternoon protest. The evening group was also much younger. I’d put the average age at about 24.

That meant the tone was audibly different. The conversations I had were different. It was a more personal perspective from people who weren’t just marching for others - they were also marching for themselves. There were more people in this crowd who felt that this issue directly concerned them and their friends, and you could hear that in their voices.

The leaders of the protest had met earlier that day with CMPD to discuss how to ensure the event was safe. As a result, the leaders placed experienced activists at the front of the march, in the middle, and in the rear. They kept the march moving, occasionally stopping for a few minutes to let people re-group, but not letting too much heat build in any one spot.

Alongside real anger and frustration were constant displays of compassion. Lots of people brought water bottles and were handing them out. I saw a woman trip and hurt her leg and the crowd immediately stopped and tended to her.

Law enforcement was present in various ways. There were some officers in regular uniform walking among the crowd, answering questions and chatting. There were also several officers on bicycles and motorcycles. Most of the police presence was blocking certain streets to keep the march from heading certain directions.

By the time the march got to the police station it had been going for over two hours and it had shrunk to maybe 300 people. About 10 officers stood outside the front door, motionless. The protesters got as close as they could to the police without making contact. One officer raised his fist in solidarity and was greeted with loud applause and cheering from the crowd. At one point someone threw a water bottle at the police and everyone turned around and yelled at him. There were some very tense moments near the police station, but after about 30 minutes the march headed back uptown.

Now it was about 10:40 p.m. The march had been going for over three hours. It wasn’t a coherent group anymore. There were less than 200 people. It had splintered into lots of little groups and there wasn’t any organization that I could see. I thought it was basically over so I started to head back to my car.

At 10:50 p.m. I heard the first flashbang. Then I saw the tear gas. I was two blocks away so I couldn’t tell what, if anything, precipitated its use (although I later read a CMPD statement that bottles and rocks were being thrown).

But the flashbang had a catalyzing and organizing effect on the remaining protesters, who instantly re-formed.

This marked the point of a clear shift in police tactics. Officers lined up shoulder-to-shoulder and walked block by block, toward the protesters, who similarly lined up shoulder-to-shoulder and waited for the police to move toward them.

Officers would then proceed down one block, wait five minutes, use a loudspeaker to tell the crowd to disperse, and then start walking toward the crowd. Then they would use tear gas and pepper bullets, which would cause the crowd to retreat one block.

This continued for several blocks, until eventually the remaining protesters scattered. Nine arrests were made.

I’m not aware of any injuries. As far as property damage, I heard a few reports of a few broken windows, but nothing extensive.

It’s really easy to see one picture or hear a snippet on the news and draw a conclusion about an event like this. What I saw was much more complex, much more human. If it’s one thing we all owe each other right now, it’s looking past the surface and trying to learn a little more about what’s really going on underneath.

What I learned last night is that the tenor of these events can change on a dime. But you can feel it when it happens. I also learned that the vast, vast majority of protesters were there to engage in peaceful, safe protest. Although many of them felt genuine anger, they understood what it meant to channel it productively and what type of conduct would undercut their message.

My thanks to the leadership of this event for working hard to keep everyone as safe as possible.

- Sen. Jeff Jackson

https://mbasic.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=13209956114...

https://www.jeffjacksonnc.com/about-jeff

Re: De-Escalation Keeps Protesters and Police Safer

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People on HN seem to have a cartoon villain view of police What could possibly give people that impression? https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/gu3s6j/poli...

"Police commanders ... WANT mayhem" That's what I responded to. I'm curious if you truly think the people that I listed want to see their home towns on fire.

Most Police Don’t Live In The Cities They Serve: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/most-police-dont-live-i...

Chicago: 88% of police live in city

St Louis: 59%

Atlanta: 14%

Minneapolis: 10% (white officers: 5%)

Seattle: 12%

Oakland: 9%

Also, certainly in Minneapolis—and likely elsewhere—the police chief doesn't seem to have nearly as much control over rank and file officers as the union head does. This story gives more texture: https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2020/05/minneapoli...

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