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US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

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Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#341

Post by save_ferris »

hindsightbias wrote: post #242
pm90 wrote: post #22

This was very predictable. Tools invented for military operations abroad eventually, predictably find their way back domestically. Despite that, its a dangerous thing to happen. I am aware of how unlikely it is for the current US Government to use the drone offensively, but once you have a massive fleet of drones flying over the US, patrolling "troubling" neighborhoods constantly, the temptation to use those abilitie…

Blue Thunder was 37 years ago. Not seeing why drones will be so much more easily weaponized than manned helicopters. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Thunder

There are a couple of major differences. My understanding is that helicopters can’t typically reach and maintain the altitude that unmanned drones can, making drones more effective to be used in less conspicuous ways. There’s also the difference in the baseline level of security between the two. Helicopters do go down from time to time, thus creating a human risk that isn’t present in drones.

I feel that since drones pose less risk to the lives of their operators, the desire to use them will be greater.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#342

Post by free_rms »

mattkrause wrote: post #179
ortusdux wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Philly, 1985: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE#1985_bombing "There was an armed standoff with police,[5] who lobbed tear gas canisters at the building. The MOVE members fired at them and a gunfight with semi-automatic and automatic firearms ensued.[32] Police went through over ten thousand rounds of ammunition before Commissioner Sambor ordered that the compound be bombed.[32] From a Pennsylvania State Police helic…

It's obviously sinister and is a pretty good hint at the end goals, but "Hunter-Killer" is also the project name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USAF_Hunter-Killer

I felt a moment of disgust but then decided I actually like this better than terms like "kinetic defense". At least be honest.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#343

Post by kelnos »

remarkEon wrote: post #149
komali2 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol. The protests started peaceful. There were no calls to burn down a police station. The first window shattered was done so by an undercover cop. The first violent action taken was by the cops. So the people responded in turn. Nope, I don't blame them. They tried kneeling, so the president got a football player fired. They tried peacefully protesting, the cops showed up armed to the teeth and fired at people with p…

>There were no calls to burn down a police station. This must be a joke. If you watched any live feed from the last couple days there are countless examples of people calling for exactly that. >They tried kneeling, so the president got a football player fired. Yeah and the next logical step here is to burn down businesses, probably run by immigrants no less. I stand by my previous statement that America is farther on…

> I stand by my previous statement that America is farther on the path toward collapse than I previously surmised

I don't disagree with you, but I feel that the blame lies with the government, not with the rioting people who are just tired of the government arbitrarily executing people in the street whenever they feel like it.

And please don't give me the usual nonsense about "you get what you vote for". The level of real disenfranchisement in this country is staggering.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#344

Post by lappet »

wayoutthere wrote: post #315
joshmn wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People aren't rioting because they want to destroy things There are people who want to destroy things. See: https://twitter.com/keithellison/status/1266127105621983238?... for a the current manchild of the hour. It often cascades from individuals like these. He may be the poster boy of the chaos but I assure you, as someone who has been in these streets, he is not alone. Please, come join us and you can see for you…

"Current manchild of the hour" has been identified as a police officer in plain clothes in other threads... There are a lot of provocateurs and I don't think we can align any of their motives with those of the protesters. Many are trying to create a justification for violence against the protesters. Some are just "break shit and get free stuff".

It is insane that a police officer in plain clothes would do that. Did they think they would not get caught?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#345

Post by _-david-_ »

mindslight wrote: post #293
_-david-_ wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Target is complicit in racism for trying to stop people from stealing from them? Do you have any evidence that Target systematically lets white people steal from them while calling the cops on non-whites? Would would you only try to stop somebody who is stealing from you if they were white? If so that would be quite racist! Trying to stop anybody regardless of their race from stealing from you is not racist. Regardle…

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." The larger point is the dystopian dynamic of developing a store that is poised against its customers, especially as a testing ground. Technologically defended islands of wealth in the middle of seas of poverty. And the blame isn't even on Target specifically, but the system as a whole that is…

>"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize."

What other interpretation am I to draw? The person I was responded to said Target was intentionally creating new policies to put people of color in jail.

If anything the person I was responding to is the one that needs to take a more plausible explanation of what Target was doing.

>The larger point is the dystopian dynamic of developing a store meant to be deliberately poised against its customers, especially as a testing ground.

Stopping thieves is pro-customer. Stores have to mark up the price of the goods they sell to cover the losses from thieves. If less people stole then the price of goods would be less.

I also don't consider a thief to be a customer. Anti-thief is not necessarily anti-customer.

>Technologically defended islands of wealth in the middle of seas of poverty.

Completely unrelated to the topic of Target and possible racism.

Do you have a look on your door? That is a technology that is defending your wealth. Why not leave your front door wide open and let anybody come in and take anything they want?

I am guessing you dislike other people's wealth but are fine with your own.

>And the blame isn't even on Target specifically, but the system as a whole that is creating so much suffering in the first place.

The person I was responding to said "Target is complicit in this systemic disease; I have zero sympathy for them." This seems pretty direct in the accusation that Target is guilty. If he doesn't think the blame is on Target then he would presumably have some level of sympathy for them.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#346

Post by quickthrowman »

microcolonel wrote: post #324
quickthrowman wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume the business owner had insurance? Bottles and buildings can be replaced. It’s not exactly like the bar was going to be profitable in the next 6 months anyways considering the pandemic, it’s probably a blessing in disguise that may save him from bankruptcy, who knows? He has a job still, he’s luckier than a lot of people.

> I assume the business owner had insurance? He wasn't, he was just about ready to open when the pandemic hit. > ...it’s probably a blessing in disguise that may save him from bankruptcy, who knows? Of course, so what are your dreams in life? When you're about to reach the culmination of a lifetime of hard work and sacrifice, we might as well just arson your project, save you from your own ineptitude. What kind of re…

> > I assume the business owner had insurance? He wasn't, he was just about ready to open when the pandemic hit.

This is what happens when you don’t hedge risk with insurance. Not sure what else to say dude. My dreams will be insured because I’m not stupid or a gambler.

I’m not defending anyone, the riots are happening whether I agree with them or not. I live here, you don’t. I have to deal with the aftermath, you don’t. I’ve been abused by MPLSs 3rd precinct cops, you haven’t.

I bet you’ve never seen adversity in your life, otherwise you’d have sympathy for the people that are rioting because they might be the next one laying face down dead under a cops boot.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#348

Post by ikeyany »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #318
ikeyany wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rule of law must be preserved when it comes to property damage, but it must also be preserved when it comes to murdering black men. In addition, saying that people are rioting because of only one isolated incident is not true and reductionist. There is a history of law enforcement treating black people's lives as unimportant.

Yeah just to be clear I completely agree with both of those points. But that's only adding even more reasons why it's completely unacceptable for the riot response here to be anything but completely law-abiding. The police already have no moral high ground here IMO.

Why would you expect people to protest peacefully anymore? This was tried for years. Remember Colin Kapernick and kneeling?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#349

Post by Alupis »

_jal wrote: post #335
Alupis wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose, to that end, what about my rights to not be looted or have my car flipped over and set ablaze? I suppose in those situations, I'd be grateful for some law enforcement presence monitoring the situation and guiding folks on the ground to the most appropriate places needing the most attention.

This is sadly typical. An utter refusal to engage, just an expressed preference for as much state violence as needed to protect their car.

> This is sadly typical. An utter refusal to engage

Unfortunately I feel this is the direction most political conversations go as-of late. Talking right past each other.

To claim the other side has an utter refusal to engage is not just unfair, it's a perfect description of exactly the behavior you have just engaged in yourself. It would be more apt to substitute "utter refusal to engage" with "utter refusal to accept my opinion as fact".

I am the GP poster above. I thought I asked some provoking questions about why we have a problem with a former military drone (presumably demilitarized) flying over a city to conduct surveillance during a time of civil unrest.

Instead of thoughtful responses, this question has largely received criticism and claims that I support state violence. I haven't a clue how this is considered reasonable discourse - and it's no wonder the country grows further and further apart politically.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#350

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

dmix wrote: post #171
user982 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exceptional first cases pave precedent for unexceptional normalization.

This is why I'm looking forward to ~1 year from now to see who is getting 'fact checked' on Twitter. Only a fool would be evaluating the first case to judge whether the whole idea is valid.

No one can see past their own noses it seems.
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