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US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

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Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#291

Post by gopalv »

ortusdux wrote: post #163
beambot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you draw the distinction between a drone (presumably unarmed) vs a police helicopter?

Philly, 1985: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE#1985_bombing "There was an armed standoff with police,[5] who lobbed tear gas canisters at the building. The MOVE members fired at them and a gunfight with semi-automatic and automatic firearms ensued.[32] Police went through over ten thousand rounds of ammunition before Commissioner Sambor ordered that the compound be bombed.[32] From a Pennsylvania State Police helic…

> The drone over Minneapolis is a MQ-9 reaper, aka "predator B", hunter-killer UAV.

I'd guess this is a Gorgon Stare drone.

https://longreads.com/2019/06/21/nothing-kept-me-up-at-night...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgon_Stare#Development

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#292

Post by gremlinsinc »

sokoloff wrote: post #219
meragrin_ wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all probability, union rules stand in the way of making any quick arrests. Their hands are tied. It is better for them to appear slow and do things by the book than try to appease the irrational mob. They'll eventually get to where the mob wants to go rather than ending up with the cops "winning" in some way due violations of union rules and procedures.

If union rules delay the arrest of an accused officer for any amount of time longer than a civilian charged with the same offense and same facts, it seems reasonable that that union rule should be abolished. I suspect it's not actually the case and there was some amount of calculation of the ex-officer's risk of flight, the likelihood that he would further offend, and the need to get some forensics, autopsy, and prel…

If me, and 3 buddies - all white took a white man behind a car, kneeled on him until dead while on-lookers video-taped it. How long before the cops show up?

Same scenario w/ a black guy. how long?

Same scenario w/ 3 Cops and a white guy?

Same scenario w/ 3 cops and a black guy?

I'm betting if you could do a study on all these scenarios of 'time to act/prosecute'... you'd find some major biases.

Would they need to do an autopsy or tox screen when there's video evidence from multiple viewpoints and the entire nation has seen the evidence and cops from other cities are calling for arrests? SEriously, this is clear cut. There is no ifs/buts.

3rd degree murder is also a joke, this is 1st degree, you don't kneel on someone's neck while paramedics and a doctor plead w/ you to stop because you're killing him without wanting to kill him, and not w/ someone you've known for 17 years.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#293

Post by mindslight »

_-david-_ wrote: post #231
daeken wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To some extent, they were burned/looted/otherwise harmed because they were there. But on the other hand, you have things like this experimental Target whose whole purpose in that (very impoverished) neighborhood was to develop new LP techniques, aimed at putting more people of color in prison: https://twitter.com/IanColdwater/status/1265867904844693505 Target is complicit in this systemic disease; I have zero sympath…

Target is complicit in racism for trying to stop people from stealing from them? Do you have any evidence that Target systematically lets white people steal from them while calling the cops on non-whites? Would would you only try to stop somebody who is stealing from you if they were white? If so that would be quite racist! Trying to stop anybody regardless of their race from stealing from you is not racist. Regardle…

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize."

The larger point is the dystopian dynamic of developing a store that is poised against its customers, especially as a testing ground. Technologically defended islands of wealth in the middle of seas of poverty. And the blame isn't even on Target specifically, but the system as a whole that is creating so much suffering in the first place.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#294

Post by PeterisP »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #281
billme wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False; Katrina & US border patrol was what officially sparked the call to (publicly) use drones in the US. CBP has used drones with FAA approval within the US since 2006; which does not included any use prior to 2006 which remains classified. SOURCE: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB115491642950528436

Odd question. The thing that I find odd about it is the jurisdiction of US border patrol here. Why would the government call them as opposed to, say, national guard? I am curious.

Probably because US border patrol has aerial surveillance vehicles and lots of experience in their use, and the national guard likely does not

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#295

Post by aqme28 »

koheripbal wrote: post #151
joshmn wrote: post #3

Native Minnesotan here — living in Minneapolis — that has lived on both coasts: With all that's happening the last few days, please don't generally associate Minnesotans with the violent riots that have captured the attention of everyone. The peacefulness of the protests and gatherings has been overshadowed by the violence. There are countless examples of Minnesotans standing up to those who choose to loot and destro…

> But burning down the precinct? Yeah, I can get behind that How is this not glorifying violence? Replace "precinct" with "school" or "church" , makes it more obvious. .. especially since the precinct was still occupied when it was attacked.

What does this analogy gain when you replace it with school or church? People didn't attack schools or churches, and schools and churches didn't employ the murderer in question.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#296

Post by remarkEon »

pm90 wrote: post #264
remarkEon wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

It's useful to point out communist rhetoric where it exists because they typically get to employ all sorts of useful tricks to shutdown discussion, like you just did with calling me "tone deaf" for not excusing rampant looting and destruction. It's effective to say things like this because it triggers a guilt response in people, and they usually back down.

If you want some facts, here's a list of all of the buildings damaged or destroyed by people "expressing their frustration". Notice that some are government buildings that provide services to the poor, who are obviously more affected by the ongoing pandemic. You can continue defending them, if you like.

>Dissent is the most American value. The country was founded on it.

This statement is thrown around all the time, but it's really an attempt at gaslighting people into thinking that chaos and calamity was what the people who started the American Revolution were fine with. Of course, the opposite is true, and the chaos and calamity of a weak and ineffective English Imperial Regime was what they were rebelling against and the final form of the revolution was an institution of essentially the same style of English Common Law but with distinctly American characteristics.

https://www.startribune.com/these-minneapolis-st-paul-buildi...

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#297

Post by dathinab »

petee wrote: post #60
colejohnson66 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Others have mentioned the air-to-ground missile problem, but my question is: “what does CBP have to do with this?” Border Patrol’s job is to, unsurprisingly, patrol the border , as in, the national border. Even with the “100 mile zone”, Minneapolis is more than 200 miles inland.

Which is a great point, a lot of their jurisdiction is supposed to end 100 miles in, so what surveillance rights do they have to the interior?

My guess is that the drone is owned by the border patrol but currently used/controlled by a different agency. Like the national guard or police. I.e. border patrol lend it to them.

But this still shows how broken this is because now you have a drone survilence by some agency but people don't know which one and maybe a violation of responsibilities if it's actually operated by the border protection...

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#298

Post by PeterisP »

ls612 wrote: post #275
petee wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well this is what we get for not listening. If your family and friends were being executed constantly you'd give up and rage too. Everyone has a breaking point - republicans were about to riot over wearing a mask to protect their families; these people are rioting over being murdered and ignored. Disproportionate and inconsistent application are also a huge issue here - where were the drones when domestic terrorists…

If someone is unhappy about not being listened to and their response is to burn down half a neighborhood in my city maybe there was a good reason we weren’t listening to everything they had to say. They don’t seem interested in reasoning, only in taking what they want by force. The armed protesters in Michigan were being jackasses but afaik they didn’t start looting or committing arson (or even hurt anyone for that m…

Well, obviously that's not a reasonable first reaction, but if all the reasonable avenues of getting people's grievances addressed have not succeeded, then it's kind of inevitable that it will escalate to unreasonable responses.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#299

Post by sokoloff »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #292
sokoloff wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If union rules delay the arrest of an accused officer for any amount of time longer than a civilian charged with the same offense and same facts, it seems reasonable that that union rule should be abolished. I suspect it's not actually the case and there was some amount of calculation of the ex-officer's risk of flight, the likelihood that he would further offend, and the need to get some forensics, autopsy, and prel…

If me, and 3 buddies - all white took a white man behind a car, kneeled on him until dead while on-lookers video-taped it. How long before the cops show up? Same scenario w/ a black guy. how long? Same scenario w/ 3 Cops and a white guy? Same scenario w/ 3 cops and a black guy? I'm betting if you could do a study on all these scenarios of 'time to act/prosecute'... you'd find some major biases. Would they need to do…

TBH, based on my understanding, I think this is 2nd, not 1st degree. I concur it’s not -3. (There’s nothing that precludes a filing of another charge as the investigation develops, of course.)

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#300

Post by kelnos »

Alupis wrote: post #285
_jal wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said in another comment, the importance of the change doesn't lie in a narrow look at the changed component. It is formally about the overall balance of rights, responsibilities of citizens and police/military[1], and less formally about trust between the two and the overall climate we want to live in, as a country. If you make a given police enforcement mechanism cheaper, it will be used more. What does that do…

I suppose, to that end, what about my rights to not be looted or have my car flipped over and set ablaze? I suppose in those situations, I'd be grateful for some law enforcement presence monitoring the situation and guiding folks on the ground to the most appropriate places needing the most attention.

If law enforcement did their jobs properly, things wouldn't escalate to the point where you need to worry about being looted or having your car flipped over and set on fire.

This is a failure of law enforcement, and drone surveillance is a lazy band-aid that they're applying to a situation they themselves have caused.

I certainly don't condone rioting, looting, and setting random buildings on fire. But the police created this situation.

"Needing the most attention"? Bah. The only thing the police should be doing in this situation is standing down, admitting their wrongdoing, and accepting punishment. That will do much more to stop the rioting and start healing the police-citizen divide than anything else they can do. But of course that's not going to happen; police as a whole seem more interested in militarizing and acting above the law.

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