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US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

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Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#321

Post by [deleted] »

Alupis wrote: post #248
beambot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you draw the distinction between a drone (presumably unarmed) vs a police helicopter?

I think we first need to determine what is upsetting about this, specifically. Is it that they are flying a UAV that was originally designed for military use? Or is it that they are flying a UAV period? What if it was a new UAV, designed just for law enforcement? No problems then? Presumably this UAV has no weapons on it, so I'm unsure what the problem could be unless we just flat oppose former military equipment bei…

[deleted]

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#322

Post by leereeves »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #292
sokoloff wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If union rules delay the arrest of an accused officer for any amount of time longer than a civilian charged with the same offense and same facts, it seems reasonable that that union rule should be abolished. I suspect it's not actually the case and there was some amount of calculation of the ex-officer's risk of flight, the likelihood that he would further offend, and the need to get some forensics, autopsy, and prel…

If me, and 3 buddies - all white took a white man behind a car, kneeled on him until dead while on-lookers video-taped it. How long before the cops show up? Same scenario w/ a black guy. how long? Same scenario w/ 3 Cops and a white guy? Same scenario w/ 3 cops and a black guy? I'm betting if you could do a study on all these scenarios of 'time to act/prosecute'... you'd find some major biases. Would they need to do…

When cops who choke a white person to death aren't charged, there's far less outrage. For example, David Glen Ward was killed by a police choke hold six months ago. The deputy responsible was fired, but no charges have been filed.

https://www.kqed.org/news/11818476/deputies-blunt-force-neck...

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#323

Post by Alupis »

kelnos wrote: post #300
Alupis wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose, to that end, what about my rights to not be looted or have my car flipped over and set ablaze? I suppose in those situations, I'd be grateful for some law enforcement presence monitoring the situation and guiding folks on the ground to the most appropriate places needing the most attention.

If law enforcement did their jobs properly, things wouldn't escalate to the point where you need to worry about being looted or having your car flipped over and set on fire. This is a failure of law enforcement, and drone surveillance is a lazy band-aid that they're applying to a situation they themselves have caused. I certainly don't condone rioting, looting, and setting random buildings on fire. But the police cre…

> I certainly don't condone rioting, looting, and setting random buildings on fire. But the police created this situation.

This specific situation? Ya, sure, maybe.

What about the rioting, looting, setting buildings on fire, etc. in Berkeley because some students opposed Ben Shapiro giving a talk? How did the police create that situation?

> The only thing the police should be doing in this situation is standing down, admitting their wrongdoing, and accepting punishment.

How exactly are the police being "punished" by my store being looted by people who don't even know why the riot started in the first place, let alone give any damns about someone being murdered by one police officer.

How is people carrying off 6 new televisions, freshly robbed from a local store, going to stop the rioting and "heal" the police-citizen divide?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#324

Post by microcolonel »

quickthrowman wrote: post #273
microcolonel wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...spray painting a building or stealing a TV? I'm not going to step into what is clearly an emotional argument for you, but I will say that downplaying what's going on in Minneapolis does not lend you any credibility. Social housing units, and hundreds of locally owned businesses have been rubbled and torched; and retailers have watched basically all of their inventory walk out the door (last time they bother sett…

I assume the business owner had insurance? Bottles and buildings can be replaced. It’s not exactly like the bar was going to be profitable in the next 6 months anyways considering the pandemic, it’s probably a blessing in disguise that may save him from bankruptcy, who knows? He has a job still, he’s luckier than a lot of people.

> I assume the business owner had insurance?

He wasn't, he was just about ready to open when the pandemic hit.

> ...it’s probably a blessing in disguise that may save him from bankruptcy, who knows?

Of course, so what are your dreams in life? When you're about to reach the culmination of a lifetime of hard work and sacrifice, we might as well just arson your project, save you from your own ineptitude. What kind of reasoning is that?

> He has a job still, he’s luckier than a lot of people.

A lot fewer people will have jobs in the rubble heap left in the wake of these selfish opportunists, operating under the colour of social justice. And now when he goes back to that job, he'll still have all that time stolen from him by the handful of callous pricks you seem so quick to defend.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#325

Post by [deleted] »

mythrwy wrote: post #108
evanlivingston wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comments reads as "god save capitalism. Everything is justified unless dollars are burned in the process."

More like "god save common sense and basic human decency" WTF is the matter with people?

[deleted]

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#326

Post by 0x8BADF00D »

microcolonel wrote: post #314
0x8BADF00D wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's a lot harder when the people who ostensibly advocate for multiethnic nations reject the only form of multiethnic nation that seems to work: one with a strong national identity and character. Multiculturalism fails without independent nationalism of one sort or another.

Yes that is true, and one of the major failures of the Ottoman Empire. They couldn’t instill any sort of nationalism in Greeks and other minority subjects. The cultures were too different. Hence why the empire fell and Balkanized.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#327

Post by Alupis »

FireBeyond wrote: post #319
Alupis wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we first need to determine what is upsetting about this, specifically. Is it that they are flying a UAV that was originally designed for military use? Or is it that they are flying a UAV period? What if it was a new UAV, designed just for law enforcement? No problems then? Presumably this UAV has no weapons on it, so I'm unsure what the problem could be unless we just flat oppose former military equipment bei…

> What if it was a new UAV, designed just for law enforcement? No problems then? > So, what specifically is it that we don't like about this situation? What potential "mission-appropriate" use is a Customs and Border Protection drone performing 300 miles away from the border in a domestic unrest scenario?

What specifically do you think this CBP UAV is equipped with that should preclude it from flying over a city? Cameras?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#328

Post by cma »

meragrin_ wrote: post #121
dv_dt wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps this is too political, but the only tool they actually needed was one they had the whole time. Charge the offices based upon the evidence and open a more detailed investigation. The military equipment was entirely unnecessary - but it's very availability makes opportunity for bad decisions.

In all probability, union rules stand in the way of making any quick arrests. Their hands are tied. It is better for them to appear slow and do things by the book than try to appease the irrational mob. They'll eventually get to where the mob wants to go rather than ending up with the cops "winning" in some way due violations of union rules and procedures.

Contract with a union can’t come in conflict with criminal law.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#329

Post by microcolonel »

dvdhnt wrote: post #203
microcolonel wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...spray painting a building or stealing a TV? I'm not going to step into what is clearly an emotional argument for you, but I will say that downplaying what's going on in Minneapolis does not lend you any credibility. Social housing units, and hundreds of locally owned businesses have been rubbled and torched; and retailers have watched basically all of their inventory walk out the door (last time they bother sett…

I am not downplaying anything and your points don't dispute my major argument of people are more important property. The sports bar, inventory, etc can be replaced. Why should locals care about those things when there's a real, non-zero chance their family and friends might be killed arbitrarily? Personally, I'd rather have my kids and wife than a Target.

> I am not downplaying anything...

You literally just characterized the largest mass arson in at least several decades as "spray painting a building or stealing a TV".

> ...your points don't dispute my major argument of people are more important property.

I guess the ten or more people who have already died in the riots don't matter though; nor the numerous women who have been raped under the cover of chaos, nor the victims of the kidnappings.

Effectively nobody is happy about the murder of George Floyd, but why cover for the killing of several more people and the destruction of countless lives? Is it over some bizarre sense of justice? What justice are you enabling, making cover for looters who were happy to bust the sports bar owner's safe right in front of him, and take what they please?

This is incoherent. If the riots were out of a regard for human life, they would not callously destroy so many such lives.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#330

Post by cma »

virmundi wrote: post #185
Analemma_ wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gosh, at my next union meeting I should remember to ask for barriers to being arrested. That's a thing, right?

It is for cops. IA has to proceed with an investigation following specific rules. Like if the cop is questioned without a union rep that evidence might get tossed.

Isn’t that for firing them, not criminal charges?
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