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US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

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Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#81

Post by dv_dt »

stult wrote: post #73
r00fus wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police helicopters don't have hellfire missiles as standard optional armament. Also police helicopters are operated by local/state forces. This is a federal agency which is way out of its jurisdiction.

> Police helicopters don't have hellfire missiles as standard optional armament. I mean, they could. And firefighting planes could be rerigged to disperse chemical weapons, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them existing. >Also police helicopters are operated by local/state forces. This is a federal agency which is way out of its jurisdiction. I'm guessing it's on loan. It's hardly unusual or questionable for…

Perhaps this is too political, but the only tool they actually needed was one they had the whole time. Charge the offices based upon the evidence and open a more detailed investigation. The military equipment was entirely unnecessary - but it's very availability makes opportunity for bad decisions.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#82

Post by daeken »

joshmn wrote: post #79
daeken wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With all that's happening the last few days, please don't associate Minnesotans with the riots that have captured the attention of everyone. I understand what you're going for, but this is a bad approach. People aren't rioting because they want to destroy things, they're rioting because they don't feel like they're being heard. What you're saying here reads as "don't listen to them, they don't represent us" which i…

What I don't understand is why many of these small businesses — which have items of value to many people — were targeted. To me, that's burning to burn, damaging to damage, and looting to loot. https://www.startribune.com/these-minneapolis-st-paul-buildi... This is my home. I visit many of these businesses. I do business with two owners on that list. There are groups of people out here who, yes, are looting to loot a…

To some extent, they were burned/looted/otherwise harmed because they were there. But on the other hand, you have things like this experimental Target whose whole purpose in that (very impoverished) neighborhood was to develop new LP techniques, aimed at putting more people of color in prison: https://twitter.com/IanColdwater/status/1265867904844693505

Target is complicit in this systemic disease; I have zero sympathy for them.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#83

Post by mythrwy »

pm90 wrote: post #53
joshmn wrote: post #3

Native Minnesotan here — living in Minneapolis — that has lived on both coasts: With all that's happening the last few days, please don't generally associate Minnesotans with the violent riots that have captured the attention of everyone. The peacefulness of the protests and gatherings has been overshadowed by the violence. There are countless examples of Minnesotans standing up to those who choose to loot and destro…

Fellow HN user, I welcome you with warmth so please don't take what I say offensively, but as a different perspective. > What happened is awful. It doesn't reflect how genuinely kind people in Minnesota are and how we, collectively feel about what happened and the movement at large. There will always be edge-cases as there is with any situation in any context. But for everyone that I've known, for everyone I've met a…

The anger is justified. Protests are justified. Maybe even violent protests, if not justified, are understandable.

Looting and burning unrelated businesses have no justification whatsoever.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#84

Post by armitron »

jorblumesea wrote: post #72
pm90 wrote: post #22

This was very predictable. Tools invented for military operations abroad eventually, predictably find their way back domestically. Despite that, its a dangerous thing to happen. I am aware of how unlikely it is for the current US Government to use the drone offensively, but once you have a massive fleet of drones flying over the US, patrolling "troubling" neighborhoods constantly, the temptation to use those abilitie…

> It seems like everyday the country is falling further into the pit of becoming an authoritarian police state. Let's be honest, the country is voting to become an authoritarian police state. US voters have historically had a flirtatious relationship with strong authoritarian style presidents. Trump just more openly so than others. When you look at voting patterns over the last 40 years, it's pretty clear we've been…

Let's be absolutely honest. Who the President may be at any moment in time is totally irrelevant in US being (not becoming, it's already there) an authoritarian police state.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#85

Post by mythrwy »

_bfhp wrote: post #55
joshmn wrote: post #3

Native Minnesotan here — living in Minneapolis — that has lived on both coasts: With all that's happening the last few days, please don't generally associate Minnesotans with the violent riots that have captured the attention of everyone. The peacefulness of the protests and gatherings has been overshadowed by the violence. There are countless examples of Minnesotans standing up to those who choose to loot and destro…

Well if we can speak with such absolute certainty, I'll go next: there are dozens of undercover and rogue police officers involving themselves in escalating all the bad stuff

For what purpose?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#86

Post by jorblumesea »

armitron wrote: post #84
jorblumesea wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like everyday the country is falling further into the pit of becoming an authoritarian police state. Let's be honest, the country is voting to become an authoritarian police state. US voters have historically had a flirtatious relationship with strong authoritarian style presidents. Trump just more openly so than others. When you look at voting patterns over the last 40 years, it's pretty clear we've been…

Let's be absolutely honest. Who the President may be at any moment in time is totally irrelevant in US being (not becoming, it's already there) an authoritarian police state.

> Who the President may be at any moment in time is totally irrelevant in US being

This is not the case and has never been the case. Presidents have different interpretations of executive powers. Trump clearly has an extremely authoritarian take on where the President sits in our government.

This is plainly obvious for everyone to see and a very non-controversial observation.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#87

Post by vladTheInhaler »

daeken wrote: post #9
joshmn wrote: post #3

Native Minnesotan here — living in Minneapolis — that has lived on both coasts: With all that's happening the last few days, please don't generally associate Minnesotans with the violent riots that have captured the attention of everyone. The peacefulness of the protests and gatherings has been overshadowed by the violence. There are countless examples of Minnesotans standing up to those who choose to loot and destro…

> With all that's happening the last few days, please don't associate Minnesotans with the riots that have captured the attention of everyone. I understand what you're going for, but this is a bad approach. People aren't rioting because they want to destroy things, they're rioting because they don't feel like they're being heard. What you're saying here reads as "don't listen to them, they don't represent us" which i…

>they're rioting because they don't feel like they're being heard.

This is almost the exact same phrase that MLK used, and it makes complete sense. If we use violence (implicit or explicit) to exclude people from "polite" discourse, they will find other ways to communicate.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#88

Post by eunoia »

joshmn wrote: post #79
daeken wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With all that's happening the last few days, please don't associate Minnesotans with the riots that have captured the attention of everyone. I understand what you're going for, but this is a bad approach. People aren't rioting because they want to destroy things, they're rioting because they don't feel like they're being heard. What you're saying here reads as "don't listen to them, they don't represent us" which i…

What I don't understand is why many of these small businesses — which have items of value to many people — were targeted. To me, that's burning to burn, damaging to damage, and looting to loot. https://www.startribune.com/these-minneapolis-st-paul-buildi... This is my home. I visit many of these businesses. I do business with two owners on that list. There are groups of people out here who, yes, are looting to loot a…

It’s almost as if rage is an overpowering emotion that is unlikely to stay narrowly targeted.

Edit: this was unnecessarily flippant. Real lives are being horrifically affected and I truly feel for your community.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#89

Post by boomboomsubban »

aaomidi wrote: post #38
wafn wrote: post #35

Pretty sure there are laws against mass arson, looting, rioting, vandalism, etc. so if the people can't follow laws why should the government?

Are you actually kidding me? Do you know who else decided to shoot rioters? Iran, Syria, China. Are you saying this is what we've come to? In that case, more power to these rioters to rid us of this disgusting state.

The US had a fairly rich history of shooting rioters too. After Kent State there was enough backlash to at least prefer "nonviolent" methods, but I don't doubt they'd fire again if conditions get much worse.

edit because of Kent State, not after. Almost immediately after they still fired 460 shots at protesters in Jackson State.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#90

Post by kube-system »

r00fus wrote: post #54
beambot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you draw the distinction between a drone (presumably unarmed) vs a police helicopter?

Police helicopters don't have hellfire missiles as standard optional armament. Also police helicopters are operated by local/state forces. This is a federal agency which is way out of its jurisdiction.

Do 70mm rockets count?

https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/Local-police-...

But really, there's little difference between a lot of civilian and light military aircraft. The Bell 206 that your local news station probably flies around was developed as a military helicopter.

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