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US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

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Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#311

Post by 0x8BADF00D »

grupthink wrote: post #280
dvdhnt wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not downplaying anything and your points don't dispute my major argument of people are more important property. The sports bar, inventory, etc can be replaced. Why should locals care about those things when there's a real, non-zero chance their family and friends might be killed arbitrarily? Personally, I'd rather have my kids and wife than a Target.

Why do you think it’s ok for rioters to destroy the property of businesses not involved with the death of George Floyd?

[flagged]

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#312

Post by throwlaplace »

remarkEon wrote: post #250
testbot123 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're failing to understand that the ordered system of justice that you're prescribing only works for a small portion of (wealthy, powerful) American society, because the processes of that order are intertwined with a systematic, institutionalized effort to deprive minorities of rights. People are fed up with trying to work inside of a system that barely considers them human.

[flagged]

>there's literally laws on the books making it a crime to commit an offense against protected classes of people because of their race alone.

do you think the laws are literally broken or figuratively broken then? also there are many laws at many levels of priority. some of them in effect enable you to kill protected classes of people under convenient circumstances

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/05/29/poli...

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#313

Post by ikeyany »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #103
wafn wrote: post #35

Pretty sure there are laws against mass arson, looting, rioting, vandalism, etc. so if the people can't follow laws why should the government?

Preserving the rule of law is one of the most fundamental reasons for government to even exist. It's predicated upon the idea that sometimes people break the law, and it's better for there to be due process administered by a judicial system than for there to be anarchy. If this is going to become a people vs. the government type issue, where the government isn't expected to be any better than looters, then the looter…

The rule of law must be preserved when it comes to property damage, but it must also be preserved when it comes to murdering black men.

In addition, saying that people are rioting because of only one isolated incident is not true and reductionist. There is a history of law enforcement treating black people's lives as unimportant.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#314

Post by microcolonel »

0x8BADF00D wrote: post #311
grupthink wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think it’s ok for rioters to destroy the property of businesses not involved with the death of George Floyd?

[flagged]

It's a lot harder when the people who ostensibly advocate for multiethnic nations reject the only form of multiethnic nation that seems to work: one with a strong national identity and character.

Multiculturalism fails without independent nationalism of one sort or another.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#315

Post by wayoutthere »

joshmn wrote: post #97
daeken wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With all that's happening the last few days, please don't associate Minnesotans with the riots that have captured the attention of everyone. I understand what you're going for, but this is a bad approach. People aren't rioting because they want to destroy things, they're rioting because they don't feel like they're being heard. What you're saying here reads as "don't listen to them, they don't represent us" which i…

> People aren't rioting because they want to destroy things There are people who want to destroy things. See: https://twitter.com/keithellison/status/1266127105621983238?... for a the current manchild of the hour. It often cascades from individuals like these. He may be the poster boy of the chaos but I assure you, as someone who has been in these streets, he is not alone. Please, come join us and you can see for you…

"Current manchild of the hour" has been identified as a police officer in plain clothes in other threads...

There are a lot of provocateurs and I don't think we can align any of their motives with those of the protesters. Many are trying to create a justification for violence against the protesters. Some are just "break shit and get free stuff".

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#316

Post by microcolonel »

cjslep wrote: post #254
microcolonel wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...spray painting a building or stealing a TV? I'm not going to step into what is clearly an emotional argument for you, but I will say that downplaying what's going on in Minneapolis does not lend you any credibility. Social housing units, and hundreds of locally owned businesses have been rubbled and torched; and retailers have watched basically all of their inventory walk out the door (last time they bother sett…

If you want to play the anecdote game: There's also a local Indian Restaurant whose owner was on the phone with the police while watching it burn on the local news, and he basically said "Let it burn. If that's what it takes to get justice." Insurance will replace the buildings and stuff. Insurance can't bring George back, nor can it undo a bad system.

> Insurance will replace the buildings and stuff.

Insurance only works for the insured.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#317

Post by joncrane »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #281
billme wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False; Katrina & US border patrol was what officially sparked the call to (publicly) use drones in the US. CBP has used drones with FAA approval within the US since 2006; which does not included any use prior to 2006 which remains classified. SOURCE: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB115491642950528436

Odd question. The thing that I find odd about it is the jurisdiction of US border patrol here. Why would the government call them as opposed to, say, national guard? I am curious.

Because there's a suspension of civil liberties within X miles of a border, and the power can be exercised by the USBP.

(Edit: see map posted in a sibling comment. See position of Minneapolis on said map)

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#318

Post by TallGuyShort »

ikeyany wrote: post #313
TallGuyShort wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preserving the rule of law is one of the most fundamental reasons for government to even exist. It's predicated upon the idea that sometimes people break the law, and it's better for there to be due process administered by a judicial system than for there to be anarchy. If this is going to become a people vs. the government type issue, where the government isn't expected to be any better than looters, then the looter…

The rule of law must be preserved when it comes to property damage, but it must also be preserved when it comes to murdering black men. In addition, saying that people are rioting because of only one isolated incident is not true and reductionist. There is a history of law enforcement treating black people's lives as unimportant.

Yeah just to be clear I completely agree with both of those points. But that's only adding even more reasons why it's completely unacceptable for the riot response here to be anything but completely law-abiding. The police already have no moral high ground here IMO.

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#319

Post by FireBeyond »

Alupis wrote: post #248
beambot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you draw the distinction between a drone (presumably unarmed) vs a police helicopter?

I think we first need to determine what is upsetting about this, specifically. Is it that they are flying a UAV that was originally designed for military use? Or is it that they are flying a UAV period? What if it was a new UAV, designed just for law enforcement? No problems then? Presumably this UAV has no weapons on it, so I'm unsure what the problem could be unless we just flat oppose former military equipment bei…

> What if it was a new UAV, designed just for law enforcement? No problems then?

> So, what specifically is it that we don't like about this situation?

What potential "mission-appropriate" use is a Customs and Border Protection drone performing 300 miles away from the border in a domestic unrest scenario?

Re: US customs and border protection is flying a surveillance drone over Minneapolis

#320

Post by jjwiseman »

ideals wrote: post #207
petee wrote: post #5

The tracking website has some great info, like this RC-26B with electronic surveillance hardware headed for Louisville: https://tar1090.adsbexchange.com/?icao=adfd7f https://www.flickr.com/photos/eigjb/3460872978 And this is the track of the drone over Minneapolis, which seemed to veer off around the time the story came out: https://tar1090.adsbexchange.com/?icao=ae4bd7

Perhaps you or someone else knows, but I frequent the https://tar1090.adsbexchange.com website often and I see unusual tail numbers listed and I can't figure out why they are listed as such. They may not even be military aircraft but just small aircraft. The tail number in this example below is _AE0B60 and registration is n/a Here's an example screenshot of what I mean https://imgur.com/a/A1p4N2c Does anyone what thi…

That's an ICAO/hex code. The transponder ping always includes that information, and then tar1090 tries to look it up in a database for other information, like the registration. If it can't find it in the database, then it just displays the code.

Codes that begin with AE are military aircraft, which don't appear in any official (e.g. FAA) database. Enthusiasts have built somewhat ad hoc databases that include many, but not all of the military ICAOs.

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