So narcissism and egomania could possibly be a result of a bad diet?
Would IF help?
Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin
71–80 of 192 posts
Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's wrong is psychedelics already work as-is, but due to stigma around "fun" alterations of consciousness possibly being beneficial (along with desire for a patentable compound that can get through FDA regs), most of the focus has been on how we can go about removing the wetness from water while preserving water's essential useful properties. Regardless of how many years go by and self-reporting along with scienti…
It's not "stigma". People treated from clinical depression hope to be able to function in their normal day lives at work and at home, not just be on a never-ending psychedelic trip.
"Life is the never-ending psychedelic trip, maaaan"
On a serious note, this isn't what GP is referring to. Generally psychedelics in the work day are self-limiting. A microdose that is more of a mesodose makes for some interesting Zoom meetings. People learn the right dose to get a boost without excess distraction/warping. Fadiman's research [0] suggests the best dose is well below the threshold of "trip" effects. So there's no risk of never-ending daytrips, unless one desires that thing. So why limit access?
Aspects of American culture have a strong stigma against "fun", euphoria, and to an extent, any effect beyond "restoring normal". eg nootropics are popular in young, hip crowds like HN, but kinda sketch among many MDs, from "I don't think these are safe" to "why do you need that?" It's a "if it feels good, stop" sentiment that runs as an undercurrent through American history and you can see signs of it in Protestant work ethic, Prohibition (of alcohol and cannabis), and of course the war on drugs.
Keep in mind, LSD and MDMA were very hotly researched back in the day, but when subcultures started associating them with parties, that's when things started getting the kabash.
"But addiction bad" - this would be a fair argument if it weren't for the near lack of correlation between DEA schedule and addiction potential [1], as well as the rapid action to ban analog drugs without any consideration to addiction potential. This is the fate of most Shulgin compounds, many exhibiting the typical rapid tolerance of psychedelics.
That leaves the theraputic dose. These are typically administered in a guided setting, either in the clinical sense, or trip-sitters/sherpas, in the informal. This is the best mitigation against trips that leave lasting psychological harm (the term "bad trip" is very loaded, as it doesn't distinct "hard lesson trips" from "no this actually messed them up long term"). If the concern is really "harm trips", then the solution is logically harm-reduction, not prohibition.
Wew, that turned out longer than expected.
Edit: added more
[0] - https://www.thecut.com/2018/05/microdosing-guide-and-explain...
[1] pdf - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.868...
Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
What exactly are you arguing? That people should be happy with the flaws of the status quo, and that we should not follow up on promising new treatments that don't have those flaws, because...?
I thought my point was fairly clear and I'm not sure how you managed to derive the "people should be happy with the status quo and not follow up on promising new treatments with less flaws" from what I said. I'm arguing that "prevents international travel in some cases" is an inconsequential side effect for anything that treats an often debilitating chronic illness that is not even within the realm of consideration f…
It was one example to illustrate one of the potential problems.
A much bigger issue is as pointed out by harimau777: prescriptions often don't get filled on time and sometimes not at all. Plenty of people run out of pills on holidays and have to suffer withdrawals, with suicidal ideation and actions being one of the symptoms of acute withdrawal from benzos.
Daily medication that requires a prescription is a huge problem for people that actually have to take it. What if they can't afford it at some point? What if their physician changes and the new physician doesn't want to prescribe it?
Why are we even defending daily medication? If there is any possibility of a permanent cure, obviously that is a much better choice of treatment.
Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin
#74Totally anecdotal but LSD made my depression significantly worse than improving it in any way. I had two proper trips and had a seizure kind of thing at the start of the second one due to the overwhelming visuals (not experienced anything like that before or since). EDIT: to expand, it made me very questioning of my own consciousness and gave me severe and persistent existential dread and fear of death to the point w…
If you used to be on SSRIs and they worked, then LSD doesn't sound like a good match. I regret not taking psychedelics, but I hallucinated from a large dosage of hashish and had visual disturbances for a couple of days after, so I figured it's better to not mess with other psychedelics. I also got a bad panic attack from a moderate dosage of stimulants(bad idea mixing them) and I could not drink coffee for 2 years, o…
>If you used to be on SSRIs and they worked, then LSD doesn't sound like a good match.
Well honestly I had thought that LSD could be great for anxiety and depression under the right set and setting. Since I was very sure I could have a great setting (which I could) I thought that my chances of a bad trip were very minimal. Unfortunately I think I just didn't pay enough attention to the "set" part
Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
What exactly are you arguing? That people should be happy with the flaws of the status quo, and that we should not follow up on promising new treatments that don't have those flaws, because...?
I thought my point was fairly clear and I'm not sure how you managed to derive the "people should be happy with the status quo and not follow up on promising new treatments with less flaws" from what I said. I'm arguing that "prevents international travel in some cases" is an inconsequential side effect for anything that treats an often debilitating chronic illness that is not even within the realm of consideration f…
I assume you're from the US?
Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
What exactly are you arguing? That people should be happy with the flaws of the status quo, and that we should not follow up on promising new treatments that don't have those flaws, because...?
I thought my point was fairly clear and I'm not sure how you managed to derive the "people should be happy with the status quo and not follow up on promising new treatments with less flaws" from what I said. I'm arguing that "prevents international travel in some cases" is an inconsequential side effect for anything that treats an often debilitating chronic illness that is not even within the realm of consideration f…
His biggest gripe is that the pill has to be taken every day or very frequently. There are loads of circumstances which make that less desireable than taking a pill a few times a year instead. You've latched onto the travel example he gave.
Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin
#77I'm kind of hoping this puts the nail in the coffin with researchers trying to separate the psychedelic effects from the anti-depressant effects so that they can turn it into some kinda pill people have to take every day.
> they can turn it into some kinda pill people have to take every day. I feel like this model is a perfect example of how the incentive structure of the pharmaceutical industry runs counter to pursuit of the best outcomes. From what I understand anecdotally, psilocybin taken in moderate doses can have beneficial effects on depression and anxiety which last for weeks or months after the dose. This would be an amazing…
Moderate does trips aren't for everyone. The HN crew is full of novelty-seeking, curious, open-minded explorers, already drawn to this sort of experience. Your average, vanilla soccer mom who is largely okay with life but struggles with panic attacks because her brain isn't great at damping the amygdala-cortical loop, may not necessarily be ready/interested in a trip through psychedelic space.
Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It seems that unless you live in the Bay area and are friends with certain organic chemists, your chances of getting good quality, real LSD are slim. Definitely not true. LSD is one of the purest recreational drugs you can buy. If it's LSD it's 'good' LSD. Occasionally dox or nbome are sold as LSD but even that is relatively rare. Also you can just order it online.
"Just order it online" make it sound like it's Amazon. In practice you're going to need BTC, a VPN, and several other safeguards.
You don't need a VPN and in most (western) countries getting btc is now trivial.
Not as easy as amazon of course but often easier than depositing money in a poker site for example.
And that's not even mentioning that you can just legally order 1p-lsd on the clearnet the same way you'd order anything (though the UK, Germany and a few others have clamped down on it a bit).
Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Daily medication, which must be taken without fail in order to have a normal life, is a liability. It can be lost, stolen, or missed. It must be obtained on a regular basis, and carried around on trips. It can be expensive. It can stop working, from tolerance. It can have unpleasant side effects. A one-time, permanent cure is clearly superior. And your closing sentence was unnecessarily combative.
>Daily medication, which must be taken without fail in order to have a normal life, is a liability. It can be lost, stolen, or missed. It must be obtained on a regular basis, and carried around on trips. I doubt these are a real problem for people who have a modicum of conscientiousness. >A one-time, permanent cure is clearly superior If you think that big bad pharma companies are keeping people from taking one-time…
> I doubt these are a real problem for people who [have good mental health]
Yeah. Funny thing about that. You're generally prescribed as low of a dose as is feasible, so by the time you're due to take your ADHD meds, antidepressants, antipsychotics, or whathaveyou, the last dose has worn off (especially first thing in the morning) and you're liable to miss a dose. So you get a pill minder, and fill it weekly, so at least you can check to make sure you don't forget and double-dose yourself. Chances are, you're taking several meds, so you have a highly detail-oriented chore you need to succeed at once a week on a specific day. If that's a bad day, you might not be able to muster the motivation and that throws off the whole week. Or you get most of the pills in but accidentally miss a day or a whole week's worth of a drug because you're juggling a handful of bottles and you're only human. Phone apps sound great, but depend on you being near your pills and your (charged) phone at a specific time of day, which has all sorts of failure modes.
And then there's the uncontrollable shit. You pack for a trip out of town. You're only supposed to be gone for a week, so you diligently pack a week's meds. Your ride home flakes, flight gets cancelled or whatever, and suddenly you're S.O.L. Or, your bag gets rifled by luggage inspectors at the airport and they pocket the goods (I've lost a nice pocket knife that way), it's stolen by hotel cleaning staff, pickpockets, or whatever. Good luck getting your prescription filled in a different country.
And once you miss a pill, you might hit a spiral that lasts a week or longer before you get back on track. It's a fucking liability.
Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not "stigma". People treated from clinical depression hope to be able to function in their normal day lives at work and at home, not just be on a never-ending psychedelic trip.
This is exactly the stigma psychedelic enthusiasts have in mind. Psychedelic-assisted therapy doesn't need to rely on patients being administered psychedelic doses on a daily basis. What's actually happening (either in trials or by underground practictioners) is that the super-malleable/open to self-analysis mental states that can be induced by psychedelics can be a catalyst for significant long-term shifts in perspe…
> This is exactly the stigma psychedelic enthusiasts have in mind. Psychedelic-assisted therapy doesn't need to rely on patients being administered psychedelic doses on a daily basis.
Why does it have to include the psychedelic component though (even sub-trip-levels)? Some seem to think that you absolutely must not divide the psychedelic qualities from other qualities, even if you could. As if "you only deserve to enjoy the anti-depressant benefits if you embrace the trippy potential of it". That sounds too religious to me.
I find that a weird stance, and I'm very pro-psychedelics and would like to see them regulated but legally available. But I wouldn't want to keep depressed people who are afraid of the psychedelic experience from the benefits just because it won't help with legalization efforts.
Again, I'm not suggesting that you can split them into "trip drug" and "anti-depressant drug". But if you could, I'm absolutely for doing so. I'll still take the trip drug, but people who are afraid of tripping can take the safe one and still get benefits.