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Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

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Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#61

Post by blaser-waffle »

Tenoke wrote: post #46
PoachedSausage wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is what puts me off trying LSD. It seems that unless you live in the Bay area and are friends with certain organic chemists, your chances of getting good quality, real LSD are slim. However, mushrooms are quite easy to grow.

>It seems that unless you live in the Bay area and are friends with certain organic chemists, your chances of getting good quality, real LSD are slim. Definitely not true. LSD is one of the purest recreational drugs you can buy. If it's LSD it's 'good' LSD. Occasionally dox or nbome are sold as LSD but even that is relatively rare. Also you can just order it online.

"Just order it online" make it sound like it's Amazon. In practice you're going to need BTC, a VPN, and several other safeguards.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#62

Post by InfiniteRand »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #25
deathgrips wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take an anti-depressant pill everyday and it solves your problem, why is that bad? Are you hostile to medication in general?

I would say if the symptoms reappear when you stop taking a medication, your problem isn't solved so much as the symptoms are being managed. Given that mood disorders can be due to some underlying conflict within the person's psyche, simply alleviating all negative symptoms seems at odds with the goal of getting as many people as possible to self-actualization.

"Given that mood disorders can be due to some underlying conflict" - that is an interesting assumption. It is one of those things that is impossible to prove or disprove. My position is most complex organ systems have biological abnormalities that are prone to dysfunction, such as diabetes, albinoism, genetic predisposition to heart disease and cancers, I'm not sure why the brain would be different in that regard.

Assuming there is an underlying conflict driving things, then medication might be simply masking the symptoms, which is a perfectly valid approach in dire situations, no use seeking out the underlying conflict if the symptoms kill you before you come to a conclusion.

However, if there is no underlying conflict and this is just a twist of fate, searching for an underlying conflict can be aggravating and misleading. If waves of negative emotion occur randomly (or semi-randomly), as has been my experience, and you assume there is always some valid reason for these feelings, the tendency is to re-arrange your life searching for a solution, if that solution does not exist because there is no underlying problem, constant rearrangement can blow up your support system and the routines that help maintain your daily living.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#63

Post by specialist »

joeberon wrote: post #60
specialist wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's rough. I'm sorry you're struggling with the aftermath. My own story may be relevant to you. FWIW: I was really into zen as a kid. Part of my rebellion against Christianity and leaving my church. Once while meditating, I accidentally had a pretty bad trip. (I can describe the actual trip separately.) I was completely unprepared, didn't even know such a thing was possible. It's kicked my ass ever since. From wha…

Honestly it was similar for me. I'm not sure if this is related to what you are saying but partly for me the suicidal and fearful thoughts were just from considering how incredibly intense the trip was. The emotions and anxiety and just general rawness of nature felt so clear on the trip that it gave me some kind of PTSD and flashbacks that lasted afterwards, to the point where whenever I thought back to the trip I w…

Damn. I think you've got it worse than I ever did.

I politely ask you to do two things, if you haven't already.

First is to have someone, something in your life that keeps you accountable. Self-reporting is unreliable. My most recent example: I was on bupropion last year. I literally felt no different with or without. But it was harming me. My only clue was my activity monitor. (Apple Watch FTW.)

Second, never accept "No" or "idk", tenaciously seek the answers you need. Someone, somewhere has some of the missing puzzle pieces you need. Doctors (et al) are not omniscient and if they've not seen cases like you before, they couldn't possibly have those answers.

Be well. I hope things get easier for you.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#64

Post by saiya-jin »

joeberon wrote: post #57
shlant wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if some have a genetic predisposition to bad reactions to psychedelics. My best friend had an LSD reaction similar to yours (increasingly intense hallucinations until falling on the ground and starting to seize). His brother had a bad experience with psilocybin and jumped out a window. I believe a second brother also had a bad experience. Makes me even more concerned when people talk about psychedelics as a…

Yeah I think that the psychological harm, much like some other drugs, can be underrated. Another example of a drug people see as harmless is cannabis, which can reliably give people (including myself) intense anxiety and panic attacks. It is conjecture on my part but I can't think that it is healthy for your mind to subject yourself to intense feelings of anxiety. These days I steer clear of all drugs except for my S…

Powerful psychoactive substances shouldn't be taken by people who are not mentally 'balanced', meaning just fine, happy with themselves or similar.

I know its easy to say in hindsight, many of us tried those things when we didn't think about it, and it worked better for some and less for others.

I think the old set & setting has some proper meaning here and can vastly bootstrap the incoming experience. Having a calm, even soothing environment, no negative outside influences like badly tripping / drug rejecting friends who can drag anybody down to mud. If one is really unsure, have some friend 'spotting' for you and drag you back and calm down if bad trip comes. If one is in bad mental place, just don't do it, it ain't alcohol which can be taken almost on any mood.

Personally, I've never had a profound trip unless alone, relaxing on the bed with nice music in the background, but that worked for my specific personality.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#65

Post by joeberon »

specialist wrote: post #63
joeberon wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly it was similar for me. I'm not sure if this is related to what you are saying but partly for me the suicidal and fearful thoughts were just from considering how incredibly intense the trip was. The emotions and anxiety and just general rawness of nature felt so clear on the trip that it gave me some kind of PTSD and flashbacks that lasted afterwards, to the point where whenever I thought back to the trip I w…

Damn. I think you've got it worse than I ever did. I politely ask you to do two things, if you haven't already. First is to have someone, something in your life that keeps you accountable. Self-reporting is unreliable. My most recent example: I was on bupropion last year. I literally felt no different with or without. But it was harming me. My only clue was my activity monitor. (Apple Watch FTW.) Second, never accept…

Thank you for the support.

I am sure I have overstated the risk, or maybe that is just my anxiety talking. I never had any actual plans to hurt myself, just overwhelming fear and dread to the point I wished it would end by any means.

Thankfully I have my wife to keep me accountable

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#66

Post by throwaway0a5e »

dTal wrote: post #52
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now you have to cancel the trip or go without the medicine. International travel is a minuscule thing to give up if you get effective depression (or pretty much any chronic condition) treatment in exchange. Heck most people can't justify the expense of international travel in the first place and the number of people who do it regularly for work and have depression is very small compared to the number of people who…

What exactly are you arguing? That people should be happy with the flaws of the status quo, and that we should not follow up on promising new treatments that don't have those flaws, because...?

I thought my point was fairly clear and I'm not sure how you managed to derive the "people should be happy with the status quo and not follow up on promising new treatments with less flaws" from what I said. I'm arguing that "prevents international travel in some cases" is an inconsequential side effect for anything that treats an often debilitating chronic illness that is not even within the realm of consideration for the overwhelming majority of patients and that likewise "no negative effects on international travel" is not really a meaningful improvement over the status quo of treatments (all else being equal). Basically, if your biggest gripe with a treatment for a chronic illness is that you can't travel internationally then that's a pretty small gripe.

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#67

Post by josephpmay »

specialist wrote: post #50
joeberon wrote: post #6

Totally anecdotal but LSD made my depression significantly worse than improving it in any way. I had two proper trips and had a seizure kind of thing at the start of the second one due to the overwhelming visuals (not experienced anything like that before or since). EDIT: to expand, it made me very questioning of my own consciousness and gave me severe and persistent existential dread and fear of death to the point w…

That's rough. I'm sorry you're struggling with the aftermath. My own story may be relevant to you. FWIW: I was really into zen as a kid. Part of my rebellion against Christianity and leaving my church. Once while meditating, I accidentally had a pretty bad trip. (I can describe the actual trip separately.) I was completely unprepared, didn't even know such a thing was possible. It's kicked my ass ever since. From wha…

Wait, you accidentally experienced ego death while meditating as a kid!? That's fascinating

If you're willing to share, I would love to hear more. How did you get so deeply into meditation? What was your practice like? What were you doing that got you to such a "bad trip"

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#69

Post by raducu »

joeberon wrote: post #6

Totally anecdotal but LSD made my depression significantly worse than improving it in any way. I had two proper trips and had a seizure kind of thing at the start of the second one due to the overwhelming visuals (not experienced anything like that before or since). EDIT: to expand, it made me very questioning of my own consciousness and gave me severe and persistent existential dread and fear of death to the point w…

If you used to be on SSRIs and they worked, then LSD doesn't sound like a good match.

I regret not taking psychedelics, but I hallucinated from a large dosage of hashish and had visual disturbances for a couple of days after, so I figured it's better to not mess with other psychedelics.

I also got a bad panic attack from a moderate dosage of stimulants(bad idea mixing them) and I could not drink coffee for 2 years, or I would get a panic attack just from the coffee -- it all went away eventually and I can drink coffee without a panick attack now (though it does seem to cause joint pain so I try to avoid it).

Re: Alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin

#70

Post by moreaccountspls »

specialist wrote: post #50
joeberon wrote: post #6

Totally anecdotal but LSD made my depression significantly worse than improving it in any way. I had two proper trips and had a seizure kind of thing at the start of the second one due to the overwhelming visuals (not experienced anything like that before or since). EDIT: to expand, it made me very questioning of my own consciousness and gave me severe and persistent existential dread and fear of death to the point w…

That's rough. I'm sorry you're struggling with the aftermath. My own story may be relevant to you. FWIW: I was really into zen as a kid. Part of my rebellion against Christianity and leaving my church. Once while meditating, I accidentally had a pretty bad trip. (I can describe the actual trip separately.) I was completely unprepared, didn't even know such a thing was possible. It's kicked my ass ever since. From wha…

I'd be interested in hearing about the actual experience.
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